Computer purchasing advice

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

A laptop is also the very last thing I want. I'm also planning on not spending more than half the price you listed. I guess I just live in a different world.

Yes when it comes to Price-Performance you really want to avoid Gaming Laptops they're just too expensive if you want something that can run some of the games of today decently.

Perhaps this article may be of interest to you?
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...a-pc,3443.html

And you're not living in a different world as that article shows for a decent gaming rig you don't need to waste that much, you just need to know what to get that delivers a nice bang for the buck and that article might give you some ideas.

HunterICX

[V13dweller]

Intel gave NVidia quite a smack, when they announced their IRIS GPU/CPU, it has a 1400 Mhz GPU on board, but the CPU is the slower part, unlike the A-10. But IRIS has a much bigger price tag.
Most NVidia card go to about 900 Mhz on average.

You can't seem to have both a good CPU and a good GPU at the same time.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Arclight

That's always the problem. People ask for advice on what to buy, you give them advice, they tell you it's too expensive.

I didn't ask advice on what to buy. I asked what the differences were between the two systems. What I got sounded to me like a sales pitch, to which I always respond badly. Sorry about that.

But Steve, what are you looking to play? Trinity would struggle a bit with the latest games on full-HD resolutions, but if we're talking about running something like SH5 or earlier it should be a very cost-effective solution.

I'm planning on a computer that will last me the rest of my life, running Rise Of Flight and Over Flanders Fields with all the stops out.

The CPU you listed is a normal one: that A-10 series has a GPU alongside the CPU, on the same chip. The benefit is a smaller package, which can be made cheaper. But due to size restrictions neither part is really top of the line. It's a good solution for a small form factor PC or affordable gaming laptop, though it falls short compared to more expensive, separate components.

I understand that. On the other hand I have a pair of 5770s in crossfire mode that were gifted to me, and I don't mind buying a better card down the road. I just wondered what the differences are, and I still don't know.

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I understand that. On the other hand I have a pair of 5770s in crossfire mode that were gifted to me, and I don't mind buying a better card down the road. I just wondered what the differences are, and I still don't know.

The difference between your 5770's and that CPU with the intergrated GPU or a better card?
imo if you go for something better I would stick with stand alone GPU's instead of these CPU/GPU's who's price seems attractive but won't do if you wish to enjoy RoF and other games with everything on full.

Also the two 5770's in crossfire mode is a nice gift, I would suggest if you're building a new system to first try those see how they deal with Over Flanders fields and RoF and if the results are not satisfactory you can always consider getting a better card down the road.

Though regarding Crossfire mode as with Nvidia's SLI that the set up may, may not or give a little performance increase as it depends on the setup and the game that does or does not take benefit from it. For casual gaming it's not really worth the trouble it brings and your better of getting just a single card but a good one.

HunterICX

[Arclight]

Ack, it can get really complicated with multi-GPU. Basically, the higher total GPU horsepower the more single-core performance starts to matter, along with PCI-E bandwidth. Luckily we're not talking about Crossfiring absolute top-end cards here.

Long story short, the lack of L3 cache on the A-10 hurts gaming performance. If you're going to combine an AMD with a discrete GPU, then don't get Trinity. A FX-4xxx or FX-6xxx will serve you better.

Considering that, I'd say that CPU should be a good mate for Crossfired 5770s.


* the actual difference lies in design. The lack of L3 cache is a notable design decision. What it comes down to is that Trinity was designed as a one-stop solution for the mainstream market. It is not intended to compete in the high-end market, and it doesn't.

(with gaming being as demanding as it is, I feel it is definitely high-end. I don't really believe in "affordable" gaming because you end up making too many concessions)

[Sailor Steve]

Thanks. I think I'm starting to understand a little more. Of course that means looking at more and different options, and I may decide to go with something different altogether. It will be some time before anything happens anyway.

[V13dweller]

If you want to build a PC that would last for a very long time, I would recommend an FX8350 eight core, it has very high clock rate (Required for modern games) And it can process large amounts of data and has a generous amount of Level 2 and level 3 cache.

GPU wise, the HD 7970 would last a long time aswell, because it has a very high Engine clock and memory clock.

The next APU is coming out later this year, the new version of the A10 (Kaveri) It will massively out perform the current APU (Richland) and the Richland succeeds the Trinity by quite a margin.

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by Arclight

(with gaming being as demanding as it is, I feel it is definitely high-end. I don't really believe in "affordable" gaming because you end up making too many concessions)

Depends on what you concider to be affordable I suppose, build my computer on a fairly tight budget last year, total ran me about 550 euros, probably a bit less,
Phenom II 965
4x4gb gSkill 1333 9-9-9-24 ram
asus m5a97 pro mobo
wd 500 gb hdd (addeed another 500 later and have an ssd coming soon)
msi twinfrozr gtx 660 2gb
520W coolermaster(IIRC) psu
and a gigabyte mid tower case with 3 fans to aid cooling

This thing plays pretty much everything at 1920x1080 with everything turned up and given its relative performance really, really cheap.

[Arclight]

The same thing costs around €650,- here, without the case. And I saved some cash at that, with that shop not offering the m5a97 PRO and opting for the blue edition instead of black on the HD.

Add in some desirables like a 2nd HD and a separate soundcard and it climbs another 100,- easily. Then maybe you need a complete system with monitor, mouse and keyboard; another 300,- perhaps. More capable CPU cooler? Another 50,-.

Keeping consoles in mind as a gaming solution, and you quickly spend twice as much on a desktop.


At any rate, it isn't as expensive as it used to be, and getting cheaper all the time.

[antikristuseke]

To get a decent price you have to shop arround though, i picked all those specific components because they were on sale at the time, there are other manufacturers out there who offer pretty much the same thing in the same price range, if their happens to be on sale somewhere tat is what to grab, that and the socet is fairly future proof, could slot in an fx-8350 at any time should i need more cpu grunt or any other future AMD offering on the same socet with a very likely bios update.

As far as consoles go, sure the system is cheaper, but it is also far more limited in its applications, the only thing they have going for them are exclusives which will die off eventually as they are unlikely to be economically viable for much longer especially since the upcoming generation consoles have moved closer to x86

[Arclight]

I just brought up consoles with regard to affordability. Spending 600,- on a capable desktop is a good price and relatively affordable. But from the perspective of (current) consoles, PC gaming is still a much larger investment.


What I meant was that for a lot of people the idea of spending 200,- on a graphics card alone seems expensive. But as you've shown with the system you've listed, you can build the rest around that and end up with a reasonably affordable desktop that is very capable.

Going lower than the 660 or equivalent (200,- price bracket, basically) to save money is what ends up handicapping a lot of systems people intend to game on. Especially if you plan to replace a discrete card with an on-board or on-die solution.

[antikristuseke]

Can't argue with any of that, when it comes to modern pc gaming, GPU is the main factor, sure the processor and ram does matter, but without the graphics crunching power, you are up a certain creek sans paddle.