Malaysia airlines B777 missing

[guntherprien]

@ TarJak...."You RN mate may know more about the science than I do, but unless he and his colleagues know where the FDR and CVR are, then he doesn't know any more about this than the rest of us.[/QUOTE]"




...My RN mate knows a little more than the out dated propaganda that google allows you to party on,trust me,but there again,lemming like behaviour of the general public is the basis of national security and governmental control.
Have you ever served in the services,a serious question,because if you have,you will have a basic understanding of what I'm trying to say here ?
Last reply here,it embarrasses me that supposed knowledgeable folk on here are questioning the basic premise of official secrets.
We have come a long way since the V11C.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by guntherprien

@ TarJak...."You RN mate may know more about the science than I do, but unless he and his colleagues know where the FDR and CVR are, then he doesn't know any more about this than the rest of us.

"

...My RN mate knows a little more than the out dated propaganda that google allows you to party on,trust me,but there again,lemming like behaviour of the general public is the basis of national security and governmental control.
Have you ever served in the services,a serious question,because if you have,you will have a basic understanding of what I'm trying to say here ?
Last reply here,it embarrasses me that supposed knowledgeable folk on here are questioning the basic premise of official secrets.
We have come a long way since the V11C

.[/QUOTE]

Begging your pardon sir, but there is something called a 'sea story' of which I have also been guilty of telling ever so often with no excuse as to why or even how I got away with it.

If submarines could hear sounds 1,000 miles away they wouldn't need SOUS which has passive sensors that reach from PR to who knows where and can track sounds all the way across the Atlantic Ocean.

Oh I know they say they discontinued it, but you know how they lie.

Now my friend in the sub service tells me 50 to 60 miles is more like it

[TarJak]

I don't question the basis of the official secrets act, having signed an agreement to abide by it.

Like Steve, I question whether a claim is likely to be true based on evidence alone. Whether or not you or anyone else here is a nutter is neither here nor there

Interesting that you claim the laws of physics can be classed as outdated propaganda.

[mapuc]

I made a google search just to see if there was more info about a sub's sonar

I found this old article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Atlantic.html

Here's something from the article

"Astute’s sonar is so advanced
that if she was lying in the
English Channel she would be
able to detect ships leaving
New York harbour 3,000
nautical miles away (although the
details of how she can do this
are classified). "

Ok, there is Sub today that have such advanced Sonar, the next question is was there any type of such sub near that area of which this plane could have crashed?

Markus

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by Oberon

The site's location is classified, and it's about 5,000 to 6,000m down (approx 16,000 to 20,000ft), so it would take a lot of effort to get to it.

Then who knows how much they actually recovered. For all we know they got the whole sub and there was something in her that was valuable enough to make them say they only recovered part of her.

Originally Posted by mapuc

I made a google search just to see if there was more info about a sub's sonar

I found this old article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Atlantic.html

Here's something from the article

"Astute’s sonar is so advanced
that if she was lying in the
English Channel she would be
able to detect ships leaving
New York harbour 3,000
nautical miles away (although the
details of how she can do this
are classified). "

Ok, there is Sub today that have such advanced Sonar, the next question is was there any type of such sub near that area of which this plane could have crashed?

Markus

I doubt the sonar is really that powerful.

[August]

Not to mention there being a vast difference between an ocean going ship with it's huge engines and the sinking wreckage of a tiny airliner.

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by August

Not to mention there being a vast difference between an ocean going ship with it's huge engines and the sinking wreckage of a tiny airliner.

Well depending on how the thing hit the water it probably made a big splash.

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I made a google search just to see if there was more info about a sub's sonar

I found this old article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Atlantic.html

Here's something from the article

"Astute’s sonar is so advanced
that if she was lying in the
English Channel she would be
able to detect ships leaving
New York harbour 3,000
nautical miles away (although the
details of how she can do this
are classified). "

Ok, there is Sub today that have such advanced Sonar, the next question is was there any type of such sub near that area of which this plane could have crashed?

Markus

I would never ever rely on any news media giving even remotely reliable information on military equipment. Particularly if it comes from the daily fail (a nickname well deserved imho). I still remember Wolf Blitzer, CNN's military expert (re, military idiot) making all kinds of absurd claims and statements about equipment, frequently even getting the names or classifications wrong.

As TarJak effectively stated, yes it is possible to hear for a thousand miles or more, but it depends on a whole host of factors, and most importantly the intensity and frequency range of the sound. Splashes also are not that loud either. Particularly if it is a bunch of little chunks, or if the plane glided down into the water and belly landed.

[guntherprien]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Just to be clear on my part in this, I don't consider you to be a "nutter" or on the fringes. For me it's much simpler. In any debate, if you make a claim, especially one not accompanied by "I think" or "I believe", you should be able to back it up, or else it's not worth the paper it's printed on. No one should be expected to take anyone's word for anything. An acknowledged expert in a field has an advantage, but then an expert in the field has access to the facts. "Believe me, I know this" is never good enough.

..I understand what you're saying Steve but,sometimes ones argument has to be bolstered by logic,factors like the official secrets act cloud many obvious truths,as I'm certain you know.
TBH,I don't even believe the 'plane crashed at all,stranger things happen at sea,lol.

[guntherprien]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

I would never ever rely on any news media giving even remotely reliable information on military equipment. Particularly if it comes from the daily fail (a nickname well deserved imho). I still remember Wolf Blitzer, CNN's military expert (re, military idiot) making all kinds of absurd claims and statements about equipment, frequently even getting the names or classifications wrong.

As TarJak effectively stated, yes it is possible to hear for a thousand miles or more, but it depends on a whole host of factors, and most importantly the intensity and frequency range of the sound. Splashes also are not that loud either. Particularly if it is a bunch of little chunks, or if the plane glided down into the water and belly landed.

You speak as if you are privy to the latest technology.
All this does is lend credence to my posts,you know no more or less than anyone else.
Like a previous poster said,either put up or shut up,or words to that effect.
Now,do you know what position I was put in ?
No one but the top echelon military has a firm idea where that 'plane is,certainly not armchair posters like you and I.
It was intimated to me by a serving officer the general thoughts of the time of his peers,I should never have relayed them on here,neither him to me tbh,but there you go,a lesson learned.
I was passing on what I had heard,I should have learned the missive "loose lips sink ships "
On a lighter note,I hope you all had a bloody nice easter break.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by guntherprien

..I understand what you're saying Steve

I wonder if you do?

but,sometimes ones argument has to be bolstered by logic

Logic is the science of reason. Demanding that someone believe an unsubstantiated claim is not logic. An unsubstantiated claim is a claim, no more. As I said, if a claim is not supported by shown facts, then it is worth nothing.

factors like the official secrets act cloud many obvious truths,as I'm certain you know.

A truth that is clouded is not obvious. A truth that is obvious is not clouded. Everything you claim is certainly possible, but neither more nor less likely than any other stated theory. The only way to lend weight to an agrument is to show facts.

TBH,I don't even believe the 'plane crashed at all,stranger things happen at sea,lol.

I don't know anything about this, so I don't try to believe anything about it either. It seems more likely that the plane crashed accidentally than that it was shot down, hijacked and diverted, kidnapped by aliens or lost in the time stream. All are theoretically possible, but the one is more likely simply because it happens much more often than any of the others.

That said, I don't pretend to "believe" anything until I see some actual evidence.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by guntherprien

Like a previous poster said,either put up or shut up,or words to that effect.

Nice to turn it back on other people, but you haven't put up anything yet, and here you are still going on about it.

Now,do you know what position I was put in ?

You put yourself in that position. It wasn't your making the statement that put you there, but your insistence that it was fact.

No one but the top echelon military has a firm idea where that 'plane is,certainly not armchair posters like you and I.

How do you know they know where it is?

It was intimated to me by a serving officer the general thoughts of the time of his peers

So you say. But you can't or won't prove that either.

I should never have relayed them on here,neither him to me tbh,but there you go,a lesson learned.

I disagree. Relaying that you were told something is fine, and that you believe it is fine. The only thing you did wrong was to claim it was a fact. As I said, it may be true, but you, or him, saying it doesn't make it so. I, at least, need to see evidence before I'll believe anything.

On a lighter note,I hope you all had a bloody nice easter break.

I'm retired. My whole life is a break.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by guntherprien

..I understand what you're saying Steve but,sometimes ones argument has to be bolstered by logic,factors like the official secrets act cloud many obvious truths,as I'm certain you know.
TBH,I don't even believe the 'plane crashed at all,stranger things happen at sea,lol.

I'm struggling to follow this logic. The Royal Navy knows where it is because of new secret submarine sensors, implying that it must have gone into the sea (crashed), but you don't believe it crashed at all.

Which is it?

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by guntherprien

You speak as if you are privy to the latest technology.
All this does is lend credence to my posts,you know no more or less than anyone else.
Like a previous poster said,either put up or shut up,or words to that effect.
Now,do you know what position I was put in ?
No one but the top echelon military has a firm idea where that 'plane is,certainly not armchair posters like you and I.
It was intimated to me by a serving officer the general thoughts of the time of his peers,I should never have relayed them on here,neither him to me tbh,but there you go,a lesson learned.
I was passing on what I had heard,I should have learned the missive "loose lips sink ships "
On a lighter note,I hope you all had a bloody nice easter break.

If there is a specific part you want me to document from my post, it would be helpful if you would state what specifically you take umbrage with so that I can address it. I would also point out that just because your friend is in the military, that it doesn't mean that he knows any more than any of us, or that what he is saying is anything but his own wild supposition.

[Oberon]

Basically, to sum up the last forty pages: