The gawd-almighty merged DRM in Silent Hunter V thread

[trenken]

Originally Posted by Arclight

The writing is on the wall, it has been for some time. There have been several public outcries in response to ridiculous limitations imposed by DRM. No, I don't think a letter would do any good. Ubi is aware of the fact people hate this kind of crap, but they decided to go ahead anyway. Heck, they took it to the next level.

1 thing left to do, and that is vote with your wallet. If you feel like sending a message, that's the only one that they are going to notice, apparently.

Please list these limitations, because as far as im aware, the only one is the constant connection, and as I said in a previous post, there are so few PC gamers these days that do not have a constant connection to the internet that you just cant worry about the ones that dont anymore.

My grandmother has a PC with constant connection to the internet. I would think most PC gamers with a modern machine to even play these games would be on the net all the time. Everyone I know is.

[johan_d]

I also lost 100's of hours of SH3 save's but not of a faulty HD but because SH3 saved the saves corrupted!
First make it saving a real save, before moving it to a server. Doesnt matter where it is, it corrupts by itself wherever it is stored.
Saves while submerged anyone ?

[Gabucino]

Strange. I've just arrived to preorder. Thankfully now I know better.

I've been through this online check ordeal with Paradox+VP Ltd's strategy games. Now I can't play some of them because I've changed my Mac more than 2 times (checked on start), and they refused to issue new codes to me, even banned me from their forum for being outraged - therefore I have to use manual quirks to play aforementioned games.

Also, Windows 7 has this Microsoft Games subsystem (gameux.dll) that requires internet connection, and falls in an endless 100% cpu usage loop if there isn't one, forcing me to start the game again (now it would start), then use the Task Manager to quit the first instance. Yes, this is the case with SH3, as my gamer PC does not have any net connection, why should it.

Maybe I'll buy SH5 after spending 1 year with the cracked version, and still being satisfied.

[cuervo111]

Originally Posted by trenken

What im saying is I lost all my save data from SH3, CoD, and many other games, the only game that I didnt lost my save data from was the mmo, which was a DRM game.

I spent 100s of hours playing SH3, everything was lost. I do not like games that save to my HDD, hence why Im a fan of DRM. It saved my ass in guild wars. I dont know anyone that doesnt have a constant connection to the internet so that argument makes no sense to me. I built a new machine, installed the game again, right back to where I left off on the other machine. So much better than the way games used to be.

Only exceptions I think are people on dialup, which is still nuts to me, there's so few of them now that game dev's dont worry about them anymore, and thats how it should be, things need to keep moving forward. And people that use their laptops in hotels, and really, how many of them are playing SH on a laptop in a hotel room?

Trenken, I think you are confusing DRM with a feature you happen to find useful. They can implement save games on a server, optionally, for those who want to do it. Hey, I'd like that too.

DRM is about artificially imposing limitations in the use of the software you paid for.

There have been lots of examples of people right here that may not be able to play SH5 because of this DRM, i don't think it's fair just to ignore their issues because things should move forward. This is going backwards, they have the technology to run the game, but they won't be able to do it just becouse of some genius' DRM idea!!

[cuervo111]

Originally Posted by Arclight

The writing is on the wall, it has been for some time. There have been several public outcries in response to ridiculous limitations imposed by DRM. No, I don't think a letter would do any good. Ubi is aware of the fact people hate this kind of crap, but they decided to go ahead anyway. Heck, they took it to the next level.

1 thing left to do, and that is vote with your wallet. If you feel like sending a message, that's the only one that they are going to notice, apparently.

I see your point. However I don't think voting with our wallet will be a solution in the long term. They will just say the game was not succesful and there won't be a SH6.

Of course, I'm not claiming I have a solution to this, other that a community financed project. Just dreaming...

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by trenken

What im saying is I lost all my save data from SH3, CoD, and many other games, the only game that I didnt lost my save data from was the mmo, which was a DRM game.

I spent 100s of hours playing SH3, everything was lost. I do not like games that save to my HDD, hence why Im a fan of DRM. It saved my ass in guild wars. I dont know anyone that doesnt have a constant connection to the internet so that argument makes no sense to me. I built a new machine, installed the game again, right back to where I left off on the other machine. So much better than the way games used to be.

Only exceptions I think are people on dialup, which is still nuts to me, there's so few of them now that game dev's dont worry about them anymore, and thats how it should be, things need to keep moving forward. And people that use their laptops in hotels, and really, how many of them are playing SH on a laptop in a hotel room?

Originally Posted by trenken

Please list these limitations, because as far as im aware, the only one is the constant connection, and as I said in a previous post, there are so few PC gamers these days that do not have a constant connection to the internet that you just cant worry about the ones that dont anymore.

My grandmother has a PC with constant connection to the internet. I would think most PC gamers with a modern machine to even play these games would be on the net all the time. Everyone I know is.

1. Define what DRM is for us all please.

2. Define what an MMO is and what a simulation is.

3. If having a computer die and losing data is a viable reason for online saves, should not windows/linux/mac OSX info be stored on a remote server as well?

4. Do you know ALL the PC gamers in the world?

5. Myself a former submariner, does that mean that soldiers and sailors on deployment should not have the ability to play games in their off time?

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by trenken

What im saying is I lost all my save data from SH3, CoD, and many other games, the only game that I didnt lost my save data from was the mmo, which was a DRM game.

What you need to understand is that:
DRM A ≠ DRM B
You keep saying DRM as if there was only one kind of DRM.

Furthermore, the constant connection requierement for an MMO is different from the requirements for a single player game.
Can the MMO requierements seen as a DRM scheme? Certainly.
Can it function without a constant connection? No!

Different kind of games, different requirements.

I spent 100s of hours playing SH3, everything was lost. I do not like games that save to my HDD, hence why Im a fan of DRM. It saved my ass in guild wars.

Again, different kind of games, different requirements.

A server side save would not have changed a thing. The saves were corrupted by the game not by your hardware.

I dont know anyone that doesnt have a constant connection to the internet so that argument makes no sense to me. I built a new machine, installed the game again, right back to where I left off on the other machine. So much better than the way games used to be.

Only exceptions I think are people on dialup, which is still nuts to me, there's so few of them now that game dev's dont worry about them anymore, and thats how it should be, things need to keep moving forward. And people that use their laptops in hotels, and really, how many of them are playing SH on a laptop in a hotel room?

I know plenty of people without a permanent connection. Not only here in the US, but also abroad. And I do use one of my laptops also when traveling abroad. But thanks to people that bend over backwards to every new technological advancement, regardless of what kind of brain dead idea it is, we get stuff like the OSP or whatever it is called.

Rather then saying " Suck it up, because I can play and that is all I care about", you should sit back and think about what is happening.

In a niche like subsims, even 20% less sale has a big impact. Games like that live by their communities, and word of mouth advertisement has a big impact on who is going to buy a product or not.

[piri_reis]

Don't Feed the Troll

[floundericiousWA]

Originally Posted by trenken

Only exceptions I think are people on dialup, which is still nuts to me, there's so few of them now that game dev's dont worry about them anymore, and thats how it should be, things need to keep moving forward. And people that use their laptops in hotels, and really, how many of them are playing SH on a laptop in a hotel room?

Who gives two cents if it makes sense to you, that's your life and your circumstances. Don't be so self-centered. At least have a little common decency and respect the life and circumstances of other people.

I want data to back up this factual assertion of there being so few people on dialup. You're talking out of your *** as far as I'm concerned.

[arkroyal]

If this is on SH5 I will not be buying the game

[kapitan_zur_see]

Originally Posted by trenken

Everyone loves user created content, it's my favorite part of games. I play a game on the xbox called forza 3, its a racing game. I hang out and just paint cars all day and sell them to people.

But this is all done through an in game system. The dev tools are built into the game for use to use. Its very cool, maybe they will put something out like this for SH5?

Charge maybe $10-20 for it, and suddenly you dont need to be a modder to make new things, you've got a tool to help you do it.

What we, modders, have achieved with SH3-SH4 obviously goes way beyond a mere dev tools will ever do, with the exception of true SDK which is rarely seen. It goes beyond what yours simple aformentioned "dev tools" could achieve. We're doing far more than simply changing textures... anything far beyond that and you'll need to alter lots of different files hence it start to be called "modding" and it starts to get messy with auto-update systems and DRM (potentially, of course...).
You don't even know what you're talking about when it comes to modding, period. Dev tools would be used to mod games, so what the point in saying "modding is gone" then?!? Contradiction here IMO.

Using mods or EVEN MAKING them makes up for a 70% of the pleasure for a hell lot of people here if not more. No real way for me to mod a simulation? that's half the interest taken away, no buy, period.

You're nothing but an annoyance now, obstinately defending that DRM with a stubborn mind refusing to see it has but no benefits to the user, modding allowed or not! trying to sell it to us like you had benefits involved in DRM and at the expense of respect toward people, to top it off... What's the f*^$g point in acting this way??

Originally Posted by trenken

If you're on dialup, well these games arent made for you. Go play checkers online or something.

I'm personnaly getting fed up of your blatant "you don't have broadband in 2010? you don't have money you old fart!!! get lost, you poor peasant, don't stop progress!" kind of tone
I'm really not into people that dares to almost insult people as respectable as subsim members here...

[Galanti]

Originally Posted by trenken

I hang out and just paint cars all day and sell them to people.

Ah...now it's starting to make sense...Ubisoft is after your own heart.

[trenken]

Originally Posted by floundericiousWA

Who gives two cents if it makes sense to you, that's your life and your circumstances. Don't be so self-centered. At least have a little common decency and respect the life and circumstances of other people.

I want data to back up this factual assertion of there being so few people on dialup. You're talking out of your *** as far as I'm concerned.

http://webupon.com/web-talk/dial-up-...ming-obsolete/

That will tell you all you need to know. If you're using dial up, well thats fine, but the world is not going to wait for you to upgrade. Noone is insulting anyone that has it, im simply stating a fact that is going away, game dev's are helping to facilitate this. They've been trying to do that for years and it's getting to the point now where you cant even play single player games without a good connection.

People used to love record albums too you know, and guess what, tapes and then CDs still came out and killed the albums off. Now those people are reduced to having to search vintage shops for their albums. There's where you're going to be in a couple years searching for offline only games when noone is msking them anymore.

The same is happening now with games. Not quite sure what is so difficult to understand about that. If you dont have a constant internet connection, well you have 3 options, complain about it on a message board which will not solve anything, find a way to get a constant connection, or find another hobby.

Thats the way its going to be. This campaign to try and halt the progression of technology is a waste of time. All games will eventually be online only whether you like it or not. Ive got a close friend that blames the world for all his problems, I cant relate to that. Change is going to happen, its happening with SH5, so im not going to complain about it, ill figure out a way to work with it.

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

1. Define what DRM is for us all please.

2. Define what an MMO is and what a simulation is.

3. If having a computer die and losing data is a viable reason for online saves, should not windows/linux/mac OSX info be stored on a remote server as well?

4. Do you know ALL the PC gamers in the world?

5. Myself a former submariner, does that mean that soldiers and sailors on deployment should not have the ability to play games in their off time?

Please be so kind as to answer these for us.

[BulSoldier]

When people stop buying games because they req constant connection to internet the makers will reconsider.Furthermore the drm wont increase the sales, it will probably decrease them because many wont buy games because of it.
So esentially more ppl will stop play games at all, the pirates will keep playing illegaly and the publisher will have smaller profits.
Sorry if my logic is spoiled but thats the way i see things.The inclusion of drm wont make many ppl buy games, but will make many STOP buying them.