Report: Israel attacks flotilla, 10 die

Originally Posted by L.T

With respect for the dead

Find one conflict zone in all history where there was no "blue on blue" shootings.

If you have an army of 50.000

500 of those will either shoot on blue. Commit crimes or brak the rules of war...we are humans not robots...

sorry...

L.T

Except when Israel shoots at UN peacekeepers it's not a "blue on blue" - situation.

[MH]

UN forces are as impotent as UN is.
UN army was also known to provide intel to Hisbbala in many cases or allow shoot missiles from inside or proximity of their bases knowingly or not.
I don't think any Fin or Dutch would like to die for all the mess we have here.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Merchant Raider

Good picture MH !!, were is the solider aiming ?

You could be a good member of UN...

[Merchant Raider]

The UN is only that way because some country's veto any moves to try and bring some end to this.
In a few years when the oil runs out and the world no longer has an interest in the region and move to different issues they will have sit down and sort it out ?

[Merchant Raider]

and in answer to your last comment, i would not trust either side behind me !!!

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by MH

UN forces are as impotent as UN is.
UN army was also known to provide intel to Hisbbala in many cases or allow shoot missiles from inside or proximity of their bases knowingly or not.
I don't think any Fin or Dutch would like to die for all the mess we have here.

The Lebanon operation was the pet project for the Finnish socialists, the FDF pulled out as soon as they had the chance.

FDF and IDF have had good relations from 1948 regardles of the politicians in power.

The socialists keep track of it well, you might find this interesting.

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article10557.shtml

[MH]

Originally Posted by Merchant Raider

The UN is only that way because some country's veto any moves to try and bring some end to this.
In a few years when the oil runs out and the world no longer has an interest in the region and move to different issues they will have sit down and sort it out ?

We all hope it will be....we also hope we will not get nuked by then.
I wonder what will happen to the oil Arab countries will they move to radical Islam blaming west for stealing their resources since all they do is pump the oil and don't develop any real industries.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Either your being sarcastic or your missing the intent.

The question was - where are the Israelis being murdered.... the answer to that is - every time Hamas, or other group - gets a chance. They target innocent civilians - and as your comment shows - they get a pass where the IDF gets raked over the coals after being attacked by a mob weilding lethal weapons.

How you can't see a double standard is beyond me.

I think the IDF is getting raked over the coals for boarding a ship carrying relief materials in international waters, not so much them being attacked by a "mob wielding lethal weapons".

About the double standard, I probably got the same feelings as you about civilian-targeting, but I'll argue that the real double moral standard is the Western argument for equal standards regardless of the means of the two opponents. In war, one does what he has to, and the option to be held to some kind of moral standard is always with the power in the better position, which is why Hamas gets away with murder compared to Israel or the US.

For this incident,If one wants to make apologist arguments like "a blockade that isn't enforced is nothing", well, then that's fine but you'll have to accept that things like KAL007 going down is completely OK - after all, a territorial boundary that's not defended is also nothing.

I'll say the "peace activists" did want to push Israel into a difficult spot, but they played by the rules this time (isn't it nice they tried that?), and there was little legal Israel can do but grit its teeth - a unilateral blockade can be challenged. Even if they made the intercept in territorial waters the other side can probably mumble something about innocent passage, which in the American translation means the right to sail warships (the entire idea of warships being able to make innocent passages is ridiculous but there you go) into other people's waters and whining when they are shooed.

[Merchant Raider]

Nice link !,Happy times

Yea I suppose in a way we Finns are lucky because to us the whole situation in Israel and Middle-East is mostly just stuff in the news, to us it's not reality around us 24/7/365.

[Merchant Raider]

You could be right MH,
I think this generation is lost because there i to much hate between, but you never know irf some good leaders will get a handle on it, and you know if they cannot build nukes they will buy them such is human nature

[MH]

Originally Posted by Merchant Raider

You could be right MH,
I think this generation is lost because there i to much hate between, but you never know irf some good leaders will get a handle on it, and you know if they cannot build nukes they will buy them such is human nature

Its holly war for many Arabs and i don't think it will be over soon.
Palestinians are just convenient tool to blame and weaken Israel in the fase of the world.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

The Lebanon operation was the pet project for the Finnish socialists, the FDF pulled out as soon as they had the chance.

FDF and IDF have had good relations from 1948 regardles of the politicians in power.

The socialists keep track of it well, you might find this interesting.

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article10557.shtml

Thnx was a good read.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by MH

Thnx was a good read.

It was actually Shlomo Zabludowicz, other Finnish originated Jews, Finns and Finnish companies that helped largely to arm Israel in time for 67 and 73.

We dont even know the whole picture during Cold War yet, there could some info to be recovered from South African records because both Israel and Finland had something going there always.

Originally Posted by Happy Times

It was actually Shlomo Zabludowicz, other Finnish originated Jews, Finns and Finnish companies that helped largely to arm Israel in time for 67 and 73.

We dont even know the whole picture during Cold War yet, there could some info to be recovered from South African records because both Israel and Finland had something going there always.

You know not sure what you're trying to do but the Israelis aren't that happy to be reminded of their ties to the South African apartheid government. It's kind of like a blemish in their history. Nelson Mandela was also good pals with Jasser Arafat and PLO who supported him and the cause of the blacks of SA during his time in prison.

Also would be nice if Zabludowicz paid his taxes to Finland but I guess that's out of the question. How 'patriotic'.