[REL] A new set of campaign layers - Page 30

tater · 08-13-07, 12:16 AM

Too bad the 20mm doesn't hurt your sub crew. Course it DOES remove hit points, which changes the crush depth...

At some point I need to make the harbors nastier. The stock AI, regardless of skill, is a little weak.

Course all I really need to do is add some mines to areas near harbors. The odd sub net, too (some as reefs or sand bars, etc, others as actual sub nets).

tater

tater · 08-13-07, 11:20 AM

What do you guys think a good patrol duration and radius should be?

I am going to go through the patrols at some point, and when I do I will likely (where appropriate):

1. Increase the patrol radius for many patrols.

2. Mention the patrol radius in the orders for the patrol.

3. Increase the patrol duration from 2 days, to maybe a week or more.

4. Mention the specific time on station from #3 in the orders.

5. Decrease the tonnage required for success.

6. Dump all requirements to only sink merchants, didn't happen. RL US subs sank warships wherever possible.

On number 5, I'm not one who thinks patrols should always be "successful" in that regard. I see meeting the tonnage level as "extra" sucess. So being on station, is basic success, then sinking SOMETHING gets you additional success. I'm open to anyone's take on this, frankly. I ignore renown entirely. I don't even promote my crew at this point (maybe when/if someone makes it so 25-33% of my crew gets randomly transferred I'll bother).

the whole renown thing is a can of worms. Ideally, i want to make even the mk14 fish have a cost. Of course I also want to mod in a mine so we can have mining missions.

Bando · 08-13-07, 02:11 PM

Since Ducimus deleted MK10 for all fleetsubs, how accurate is the Mk10 in a Balao for example. Did they sail with these torpedoes at all?

How moddable is this for simulation purposes. Meaning the MK 10 should only be fired without angle, so straight forward from any sub, making this a reliable, but difficult to employ weapon. I tried tweaking this, but apparently it's beyond my abilities.

If this could be done as it should, the Mk 10 could become availible again to the fleet boats.

Just a thought......:hmm:

LukeFF · 08-13-07, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

1. Increase the patrol radius for many patrols.

Yep, good. Maybe bump it out to 150 nautical miles?

Quote:

2. Mention the patrol radius in the orders for the patrol.

Absolutely!

Quote:

3. Increase the patrol duration from 2 days, to maybe a week or more.

Depends. What was the historical average for this?

Quote:

4. Mention the specific time on station from #3 in the orders.

See answer to #2.

Quote:

5. Decrease the tonnage required for success.

Probably a good idea. Weren't patrols that result in ~5000 tons of shipping sunk considered a successful patrol by ComSubPac? If so, this should be the baseline for completing the mission.

Quote:

6. Dump all requirements to only sink merchants, didn't happen. RL US subs sank warships wherever possible.

Good idea, again.

tater · 08-13-07, 04:58 PM

On#6 I suppose there is one exception.

"Success" doesn't mean you MUST succeed. The patrol is successful, for example, but the sinking might not be. no big deal. Sometimes they tried for tankers, for example. In that case, a "sink tankers" mission might be in order, and of you don't sink them, it's not like you failed, you just failed to sink any tankers.

The whole renown scheme needs some reevaluation, IMO. I don;t have a problem with it in general, but it'd be nice if it meant more.

tater

Misfit138 · 08-13-07, 05:06 PM

Quote:

1. Increase the patrol radius for many patrols.

2. Mention the patrol radius in the orders for the patrol.

3. Increase the patrol duration from 2 days, to maybe a week or more.

4. Mention the specific time on station from #3 in the orders.

5. Decrease the tonnage required for success.

6. Dump all requirements to only sink merchants, didn't happen. RL US subs sank warships wherever possible.

These all would be a major improvents IMO compared to the current situation. Also, one thing I've noticed using your mod. The patrol goals when starting December 1st 1941 needs some tweaking. I've had many times orders to patrol the Philippiness and engeage enemy shipping even thought the war hasn't broke out yet

Oh, and this is when I've started my career in Manilla

tater · 08-13-07, 05:12 PM

Ah, I used Beery's campaign starts and I've honestly never started a patrol before the war. I left it there partly for ear of breaking something, and partly because it might be useful for testing. It will need a generic patrol mission or two to be realistic. That or a version of Ducimus's "sea trials" with a training mission.

tater

Gunner · 08-13-07, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Ah, I used Beery's campaign starts and I've honestly never started a patrol before the war. I left it there partly for ear of breaking something, and partly because it might be useful for testing. It will need a generic patrol mission or two to be realistic. That or a version of Ducimus's "sea trials" with a training mission.

tater

Training mission for manual targeting. Big juicy Tanker and BB would be Kool since I'm just learning M.T. Played Sea Trials and thought to be a great addition to game

tater · 08-13-07, 09:54 PM

The sea trials were all ducimus. Brilliant.

tater

kikn79 · 08-15-07, 08:33 AM

@Tater, I wanted to post an anomoly I witnessed last night. I also posted on WernerSobe's thread so he is aware of it, too.

I'm using TM1.5, RSM 3.0, and your latest campaign (.76 I believe) I ran across a single tanker @ 129Deg E X 27Deg N on Dec. 26, 1942 heading North at around 5 kts. Shortly after I spotted him, he started slowing down and came to a stop. When I got closer and looked at him, he was sitting so low in the water that waves were splashing over the deck.

I know that people are reporting tankers spontaneous combustion with RSM 3.0 but I wanted to let you know so you could make sure one of the ZZs wasn't left out.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Your mod ROCKS!! I absolutely love the ZZs and the difficulty setting up a shot with them. Fantastic work, Sir. If you're ever in my corner of the world, drinks are on me!!

Chuck

tater · 08-15-07, 08:50 AM

Sometimes ships don't ZZ, actually. I have them make choices every so often to make a straight line dash. Early in the war, I have them do this more than later, too.

In RL, I have read that early in the war many merchants would only ZZ in the daytime, and would run straight at night. I can add that at some point, but it's complicated (I have to "mark" the waypoints so that the mcoca editor can only ZZ between the chosen pairs). Once done like that, I have to make a copy with a scripted ship since the "estimated time to waypoints" button doesn't work with random groups.

switch.dota · 08-15-07, 08:59 AM

I usually get the odd half-sunk tanker using TM 1.4a (0.72 of this mod). Particularly in the solmons in aug 42. The bug might not appear with Werener''s modified ships mod (NSM 3.0)

tater · 08-15-07, 09:28 AM

It might be a fundametal flaw in the tanker then. I actually put fuel in them, the stock game NEVER puts fuel in tankers.

Maybe they were broken and that was their fix (instead of really fixing them).

tater

Schultzy · 08-15-07, 10:06 AM

Really intrigued by this mod as it sounds like you've done some amazing stuff but will it do bad things to RFB if I install over the top? Or is it GTG?

Either way, nice job so far!

Sockeye · 08-15-07, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

1. Increase the patrol radius for many patrols.

2. Mention the patrol radius in the orders for the patrol.

3. Increase the patrol duration from 2 days, to maybe a week or more.

4. Mention the specific time on station from #3 in the orders.

This definitely sounds pretty good to me, but I wanted to add something about time requirements.

I see in the mission editor that times can be "Non-Continuous"; I think having this in the objectives might be a decent idea just in case you have to leave the area for whatever reason. Have to chase that convoy that takes you beyond the invisible boundary at hour 47? No problem: sink 'em and come back to finish off the remaining hour instead of starting the clock all over again

__________

And an aside:

ComSubPac sent me to patrol west just off Truk this time; not seeing much of marus yet but the seaborne patrols are abundant.

I know you had been working around with minefields and subnets, but a few weeks ago I was penetrating the Sea of Japan through the Tsugaru Strait between Honshu and Hokkaido, and was wondering if they were actually being applied to my campaign or not. I was actually looking for them and waiting to hear that loud screeching sound from SH3 that indicates they're in the vicinity, but wasn't hearing or seeing anything. Checked out the layer in the mission editor, and the little guys were supposed to be all over the place, so I took a look again at the Strait, but still came up dry.

Well today just off the shoals at Truk, that sound I had been looking for almost blew my eardrums out... lol

Looking forward to the '44 and '45 layers being worked over

08-13-07, 02:11 PM	#438
Bando Commodore Join Date: May 2007 Location: Where you don't see me Posts: 607 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	Since Ducimus deleted MK10 for all fleetsubs, how accurate is the Mk10 in a Balao for example. Did they sail with these torpedoes at all? How moddable is this for simulation purposes. Meaning the MK 10 should only be fired without angle, so straight forward from any sub, making this a reliable, but difficult to employ weapon. I tried tweaking this, but apparently it's beyond my abilities. If this could be done as it should, the Mk 10 could become availible again to the fleet boats. Just a thought......:hmm: __________________ Regards, Bando

08-13-07, 12:16 AM	#436
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Too bad the 20mm doesn't hurt your sub crew. Course it DOES remove hit points, which changes the crush depth... At some point I need to make the harbors nastier. The stock AI, regardless of skill, is a little weak. Course all I really need to do is add some mines to areas near harbors. The odd sub net, too (some as reefs or sand bars, etc, others as actual sub nets). tater

08-13-07, 11:20 AM	#437
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	What do you guys think a good patrol duration and radius should be? I am going to go through the patrols at some point, and when I do I will likely (where appropriate): 1. Increase the patrol radius for many patrols. 2. Mention the patrol radius in the orders for the patrol. 3. Increase the patrol duration from 2 days, to maybe a week or more. 4. Mention the specific time on station from #3 in the orders. 5. Decrease the tonnage required for success. 6. Dump all requirements to only sink merchants, didn't happen. RL US subs sank warships wherever possible. On number 5, I'm not one who thinks patrols should always be "successful" in that regard. I see meeting the tonnage level as "extra" sucess. So being on station, is basic success, then sinking SOMETHING gets you additional success. I'm open to anyone's take on this, frankly. I ignore renown entirely. I don't even promote my crew at this point (maybe when/if someone makes it so 25-33% of my crew gets randomly transferred I'll bother). the whole renown thing is a can of worms. Ideally, i want to make even the mk14 fish have a cost. Of course I also want to mod in a mine so we can have mining missions.

08-13-07, 04:58 PM	#440
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	On#6 I suppose there is one exception. "Success" doesn't mean you MUST succeed. The patrol is successful, for example, but the sinking might not be. no big deal. Sometimes they tried for tankers, for example. In that case, a "sink tankers" mission might be in order, and of you don't sink them, it's not like you failed, you just failed to sink any tankers. The whole renown scheme needs some reevaluation, IMO. I don;t have a problem with it in general, but it'd be nice if it meant more. tater

08-13-07, 05:12 PM	#442
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Ah, I used Beery's campaign starts and I've honestly never started a patrol before the war. I left it there partly for ear of breaking something, and partly because it might be useful for testing. It will need a generic patrol mission or two to be realistic. That or a version of Ducimus's "sea trials" with a training mission. tater

08-13-07, 09:54 PM	#444
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The sea trials were all ducimus. Brilliant. tater

08-15-07, 08:33 AM	#445
kikn79 Medic Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 166 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	@Tater, I wanted to post an anomoly I witnessed last night. I also posted on WernerSobe's thread so he is aware of it, too. I'm using TM1.5, RSM 3.0, and your latest campaign (.76 I believe) I ran across a single tanker @ 129Deg E X 27Deg N on Dec. 26, 1942 heading North at around 5 kts. Shortly after I spotted him, he started slowing down and came to a stop. When I got closer and looked at him, he was sitting so low in the water that waves were splashing over the deck. I know that people are reporting tankers spontaneous combustion with RSM 3.0 but I wanted to let you know so you could make sure one of the ZZs wasn't left out. I've said it before, I'll say it again. Your mod ROCKS!! I absolutely love the ZZs and the difficulty setting up a shot with them. Fantastic work, Sir. If you're ever in my corner of the world, drinks are on me!! Chuck

08-15-07, 08:50 AM	#446
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Sometimes ships don't ZZ, actually. I have them make choices every so often to make a straight line dash. Early in the war, I have them do this more than later, too. In RL, I have read that early in the war many merchants would only ZZ in the daytime, and would run straight at night. I can add that at some point, but it's complicated (I have to "mark" the waypoints so that the mcoca editor can only ZZ between the chosen pairs). Once done like that, I have to make a copy with a scripted ship since the "estimated time to waypoints" button doesn't work with random groups.

08-15-07, 08:59 AM	#447
switch.dota Captain Join Date: May 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 492 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I usually get the odd half-sunk tanker using TM 1.4a (0.72 of this mod). Particularly in the solmons in aug 42. The bug might not appear with Werener''s modified ships mod (NSM 3.0)

08-15-07, 09:28 AM	#448
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	It might be a fundametal flaw in the tanker then. I actually put fuel in them, the stock game NEVER puts fuel in tankers. Maybe they were broken and that was their fix (instead of really fixing them). tater