The devil himself...

[Immacolata]

August, I think it is because USA is very present and easy to see. A professor (german actually) called it a kind of schizophrenic relationship. Everybody loves american products and culture. People want their movies, pop music, fashion, iPods, games etc. By being so dominantly present in people's lives it is impossible for them not to form opinions about USA. Too bad its based on sound bites in the news and tv drama.

And then there is the policy of the white house, and you bet that no matter what the white house does, it will ALWAYS be criticized. At least as long as USA is united. But europeans are not alone. Your own domestic political scene is full of internal strife and criticism as well. It just seems like whenever an Old Worlder criticizes the same things, the old star-spangled-banner-on-the-4th-of-july gland gets mighty irritated.

I am sure there is nothing REALLY harmful meant by it. A minute fraction of mostly younger than 20 idealist lefties are anti-american in every aspect. Doesn't matter what. The rest are not nearly as vocal. Or even anti anything. For all the words, it is not the old worlders that are the modern day equivalent of red coats to the USA, remember

[joea]

Originally Posted by August

I learned long ago that no matter what we Americans do there will always be a portion of Europeans who will hate us and it's a waste of time worrying about it let alone trying to change it.

Things are not so simple August. As others have said there are some who will hate the US no matter what. Others it depends on the issue. look at our wordy philosophe friend Skybird, very critical on some issues of the USA, but also of Europe and his native Germany (sorry Sky you are just a good example). On issues like the Islamic terror and well Islam in general, the use(lessness) of the UN, he and several non-Americans are in general agreement with conservative American opinion. It really comes down to who shouts the loudest.

[The Noob]

I don't really "hate" the USA. There are nice people there, i just think some, if not most of thier Governement decisions are wrong. Maybe has something to do with the fact that i am a Left Wing atheist and that America is begin ruled by Right Wing Republican radical christians, no idea. The word "hate" was not very well choosen. I apologize.

Or however it's written.

I not "hate" the USA, i dislike it.

The only one i do infact hate is Mr. Bush. He's IMHO the most *meep*ed up president ever. All Presidents you ever had, i disliked, the only ones i hate are the Bush's.

[SkvyWvr]

Originally Posted by The Noob

:rotfl::rotfl:

But, how about YOU coming over here to Austria? Just take a look how much better it is here. Just...try it. I'm sure you have enought money in your Big Wallet.

Why not try it? Fear it's nicer here?

Been there, done that. Nice place. Old buildings, alright beer and everyone seemed nice. What happened to you?:hmm:

[SkvyWvr]

Originally Posted by Immacolata

the old star-spangled-banner-on-the-4th-of-july gland gets mighty irritated.

Good one, I like that.:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[The Noob]

Originally Posted by SkvyWvr

Been there, done that. Nice place. Old buildings, alright beer and everyone seemed nice. What happened to you?:hmm:

I watched sinnlos im weltraum and gone online. That happened to me.:rotfl:

[joea]

Originally Posted by The Noob

I don't really "hate" the USA. There are nice people there, i just think some, if not most of thier Governement decisions are wrong. Maybe has something to do with the fact that i am a Left Wing atheist and that America is begin ruled by Right Wing Republican radical christians, no idea. The word "hate" was not very well choosen. I apologize.

Or however it's written.

I not "hate" the USA, i dislike it.

The only one i do infact hate is Mr. Bush. He's IMHO the most *meep*ed up president ever. All Presidents you ever had, i disliked, the only ones i hate are the Bush's.

Come on, there were some good ones, Lincoln, FDR, Jefferson, Eisenhower, Truman are on my list. But...all that is subjective eh? I cannot stand the present Bush administration too.

BTW I am glad you said you are left-wing, I hate some of your politicians in Austria, Haider first on the list. I love Austria, well Vienna is on my list of places to visit and find most Austrians I've met to be polite and cultured. I like most Americans too, left or right wing. Heck I like most people, one of the few on this board who likes Muslims and Jews at the same time.

[The Noob]

Originally Posted by joea

Come on, there were some good ones, Lincoln, FDR, Jefferson, Eisenhower, Truman are on my list. But...all that is subjective eh? I cannot stand the present Bush administration too.

Those are not so bad. But at least they are lightyears better than bush.

Originally Posted by joea

BTW I am glad you said you are left-wing, I hate some of your politicians in Austria, Haider first on the list.

Oh yeah! Haider is horrable. But don't forget HC Strache. HC means "Hans-Christian", but i like to call him "HH", He*l H**ler Strache, cause he's sure a Nazi! Those FPÖ and BZÖ are Nazis, i'm sure they are! Thier anti-imigrants politics, thier propaganda, this really has much resemblance. And everyone here in styria seems to be one of them.

But i will not give up my political position, even if i have to hide in a hole like bugs bunny.

Originally Posted by joea

I love Austria, well Vienna is on my list of places to visit and find most Austrians I've met to be polite and cultured. I like most Americans too, left or right wing. Heck I like most people, one of the few on this board who likes Muslims and Jews at the same time.

Well, there is one thing i leaned from my father.

In every culture, in every nation, you will both a**holes and nice people.

He has some good things to say, actually.

[scandium]

Originally Posted by joea

I like most Americans too, left or right wing. Heck I like most people, one of the few on this board who likes Muslims and Jews at the same time.

Ditto, and I find the people I've met, or know, in real life are nothing like the superficial stereotypes routinely depicted here; and I would say that one of my Muslim co-workers newly emigrated to Canada from the ME, who has already her B.Sc. in Economics and is fluent in 4 languages, is probably brighter, more tolerant, and better educated than most of the people on this board (including me, who could only ever master english ... and to look at my writing sometimes you'd think just barely) who are forever going off about "the Muslims" as though they were some kind of collective like the Borg from Star Trek.

[The Noob]

You're right there scandium.

But...I've heard Borg!

[Immacolata]

Thanks scandium. I wish some of this boards foaming at the mouth radicals would read and understand that. It is very easy to point the blaming finger at Islam and ascribe all things evil to that. It is much easier than having to judge people on an individual basis.

My late grandfather, god bless him, was the sort of closet prejudicial suburban semi-racist for many years. Not the nasty type that throws rocks and marches with banners, just the one who thinks that all them there muslims and coloured people are probably just after our money. Well first his left neighbour was a sikh family. And the friendly person my grandfather was, he became good friends with them. Not Friends good friends, but they visited each other, spoke over the hedge, ate dinner now and then. Next, his other neighbour was iranian. Real genuine muslims. But to the amazement of my grandfather they were not jihadists or radicals. Doctors and engineers. With two lovely daughters. And to the day of his death, their youngest daughter Rosa came and visited them everyday. Watched television at their house, ate dinner etc. Never again did my grandfather speak ill of other people when he didnt know them. Not to my recollection.

It might have been an american couple, armenian, chinese, mexican. That would not have mattered if it was friendly people. It merely reinfored my presumption that no matter religion, mankind is equal. We want security. Food on the table. A Family to call our own. And the recognition and admiration from our peers. Those are the pillars of the meaning of life.

[Trygvasson]

As long as there are men, they will faishion gods. As long as there are gods, there will be killing in their name.

[Immacolata]

Aye, and I still believe that waging war in the name of god is usually a pretext for killing in the name of gain. Be it money, land, power, security, something. Doing in the name of god is a convenient way for a bellum justum, a justified war.

[Trygvasson]

I am forever amazed by the amount of open minded, tolerant and interesting people I meet when posting in forums for games centered on directing the armed forces of Nazi Germany.

[CCIP]

...eh, this isn't just a Silent Hunter III club! I think you're going a little narrow here

And wow, a thread where left-wing people are being said nice things to on this forum and I'm missing? What's wrong with this picture? :p

Well said on the part of the last few posters. What often annoys me is not people's political orientation but how it seems to connect to their personal philosophies and motivations. I'm very, very wary of people who are quick to class others into good and bad on any given principle.

For me it's both impossible and unnatural to look for "The Enemy [state/nation/culture/group]". Perhaps it's because of my education and profession (linguist) where by default I end up working with all cultural and ethnic groups on an equal basis. Perhaps it's the fact that I've spent too long in places where I had to fight to be recognized as an individual. Perhaps it's just where I was born (USSR) and the irony best described by a favorite singer of mine - "In the old cemetery, where the enemies ressurected / I understood something, getting up off the wrong foot". Nope, the notion that when I was born I was most certainly an evil communist Russkie to some people (to whose society I'm now uncomfortably close at times) is just too funny and instructive to me at the same time :hmm: