Defining terrorism - MI? - Page 3

August · 08-09-06, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scandium

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

I was going to make a lengthy reply to Scandiums nazi-Isreali comparison rant in the other thread but this pretty much says it all.

Then you still haven't looked at any of photage I provided, and if you're not willing to do that then its just as well you spared me the waste of time.

I did look at the footage, it doesn't change my mind about them or you.

scandium · 08-09-06, 11:10 PM

Oren Ben-Dor: Who are the real terrorists in the Middle East?

What exactly is being defended? Is it the citizens of Israel or the nature of the Israeli state?

http://comment.independent.co.uk/com...cle1197235.ece

Quote:

As its citizens are being killed, Israel is, yet again, inflicting death and destruction on Lebanon. It tries to portray this horror as necessary for its self-defence. Indeed, the casual observer might regard the rocket attacks on Israeli cities such as Haifa and my own home town, Nahariya, as justifying this claim.

While states should defend their citizens, states which fail this duty should be questioned and, if necessary, reconfigured. Israel is a state which, instead of defending its citizens, puts all of them, Jews as well as non-Jews, in danger.
What exactly is being defended by the violence in Gaza and Lebanon? Is it the citizens of Israel or the nature of the Israeli state? I suggest the latter. Israel's statehood is based on an unjust ideology which causes indignity and suffering for those who are classified as non-Jewish by either a religious or ethnic test. To hide this primordial immorality, Israel fosters an image of victimhood. Provoking violence, consciously or unconsciously, against which one must defend oneself is a key feature of the victim-mentality. By perpetuating such a tragic cycle, Israel is a terrorist state like no other.

Many who wish to hide the immorality of the Israeli state do so by restricting attention to the horrors of the post-1967 occupation and talking about a two-state solution, since endorsing a Palestinian state implicitly endorses the ideology behind a Jewish one.

The very creation of Israel required an act of terror. In 1948, most of the non-Jewish indigenous people were ethnically cleansed from the part of Palestine which became Israel. This action was carefully planned. Without it, no state with a Jewish majority and character would have been possible. Since 1948, the "Israeli Arabs", those Palestinians who avoided expulsion, have suffered continuous discrimination. Indeed, many have been internally displaced, ostensibly for "security reasons", but really to acquire their lands for Jews.

Surely Holocaust memory and Jewish longing for Eretz Israel would not be sufficient to justify ethnic cleansing and ethnocracy? To avoid the destabilisation that would result from ethical inquiry, the Israeli state must hide the core problem, by nourishing a victim mentality among Israeli Jews.

To sustain that mentality and to preserve an impression of victimhood among outsiders, Israel must breed conditions for violence. Whenever prospects of violence against it subside, Israel must do its utmost to regenerate them: the myth that it is a peace-seeking victim which has "no partner for peace" is a key panel in the screen with which Israel hides its primordial and continuing immorality.

Israel's successful campaign to silence criticism of its initial and continuing dispossession of the indigenous Palestinians leaves the latter no option but to resort to violent resistance. In the wake of electing Hamas - the only party which, in the eyes of Palestinians, has not yet given up their cause - the Palestinian population of Gaza and the West Bank were subjected to an Israeli campaign of starvation, humiliation and violence.

The insincere "withdrawal" from Gaza, and the subsequent blockade, ensured a chronicle of violence which, so far, includes Palestinian firing of Kasem rockets, the capture of an Israeli soldier and the Israeli near re-occupation of Gaza. What we witness is more hatred, more violence from Palestinians, more humiliation and collective punishments from Israelis - all useful reinforcement for the Israeli victim mentality and for the sacred cow status of Israeli statehood.

The truth is that there never could have been a partition of Palestine by ethically acceptable means. Israel was created through terror and it needs terror to cover-up its core immorality. Whenever there is a glimmer of stability, the state orders a targeted assassination, such as that in Sidon which preceded the current Lebanon crisis, knowing well that this brings not security but more violence. Israel's unilateralism and the cycle of violence nourish one another.

Amidst the violence and despite the conventional discourse which hides the root of this violence, actuality calls upon us to think. The more we silence its voice, the more violently actuality is sure to speak.

In Hebrew, the word elem (a stunned silence resulting from oppression or shock) is etymologically linked to the word almut (violence). Silence about the immoral core of Israeli statehood makes us all complicit in breeding the terrorism that threatens a catastrophe which could tear the world apart.

scandium · 08-09-06, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Quote:

Originally Posted by scandium

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

I was going to make a lengthy reply to Scandiums nazi-Isreali comparison rant in the other thread but this pretty much says it all.

Then you still haven't looked at any of photage I provided, and if you're not willing to do that then its just as well you spared me the waste of time.

I did look at the footage, it doesn't change my mind about them or you.

What parts of it did you take issue with? How do you reconcile the realities depicted with the Israeli propaganda techniques, as exposed by the 1h20m documentary, with the very same talking points you parrot here?

Did you find them strikingly similar and come away with the feeling that you're being used as a tool by well monied, vested interests that you have no say in, do not benefit from, and could even one day become the victim of (the reality of blowback)?

That, at least, was my feeling afterward, having spent so much of my life so brainwashed by such slick PR and selective depiction, really outright distortion, of a state who's actions are so disproportionately influential on the world scene, and even in my remote neck of the woods and yours as well.

But I've been fooled once, now I know better. Never again.

August · 08-09-06, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scandium

But I've been fooled once, now I know better. Never again.

Whatever.

scandium · 08-10-06, 01:28 AM

Iceman, as the forum's most vocal Christian, I'm curious to know what your response is to this letter from the Anglican Bishop in Jerusalem (or any other practicing Christians here, I myself have too long been agnostic for religious appeals to have any effect on me):

http://www.anglicancommunion.org/acn...0/acns4170.cfm

Quote:

Bishop Riah, the Anglican Bishop in Jerusalem, on the current crisis in the Middle East

Dear Friends,

For the past forty years we have been largely alone on this desert fighting a predator that not only has robbed us of all but a small piece of our historic homeland, but threatens the traditions and holy sites of Christianity. We are tired, weary, sick, and wounded. We need your help.

We have seen and we have been the recipients of the generosity of our American and British friends. We cherish the support of everyone throughout the world who stands with us in solidarity. Daily, I hear from many of them who express outrage at the arrogant and aggressive positions of President Bush, Secretary Rice, Senator Clinton, and Prime Minister Blair. I am saddened to realise just how much the deserved prestige of the United States and Britain has declined as a result of politicians who seem to devalue human life and suffering. And, I am disturbed that the Zionist Christian community is damaging America’s image as never before.

Little more than a week ago, we were focused on the plight of the Palestinian people. In Gaza, four and five generations have been victims of Israeli racism, hate crimes, terror, violence, and murder. Garbage and sewage have created a likely outbreak of cholera as Israeli strategies create the collapse of infrastructures. There is no milk. Drinking water, food, and medicine are in serious short supply. Innocents are being killed and dying from lack of available emergency care. Children are paying the ultimate price. Even for those whose lives are spared, many of them are traumatised and will not grow to live useful lives. Commerce between the West Bank and Gaza has been halted and humanitarian aid barely trickles into some of the neediest in the world.

Movement of residents of the West Bank is difficult or impossible as “security measures” are heightened to break the backs of the Palestinian people and cut them off from their place of work, schools, hospitals, and families. It is family and community that has sustained these people during these hopeless times. For some, it is all that they had, but that too has been taken away with the continued building of the wall and check points. The strategy of ethnic cleansing on the part of the State of Israel continues.

This week, war broke out on the Lebanon-Israeli border (near Banyas where Jesus gave St. Peter the keys to heaven and earth). The Israeli government’s disproportionate reaction to provocation was consistent with their opportunistic responses in which they destroy their perceived enemy.

In her recent article, “The Insane Brutality of the State of Israel,” American, Kathleen Christison, a former CIA analyst says, “The state lashes out in a crazed effort, lacking any sense of proportion, to reassure itself of its strength.” She continues, “A society that can brush off as unimportant an army officer’s brutal murder of a thirteen year old girl on the claim that she threatened soldiers at a military post (one of nearly seven hundred Palestinian children murdered by Israelis since the Intifada began) is not a society with a conscience.” The “situation” as it has come to be called, has deteriorated into a war without boundaries or limitations. It is a war with deadly potential beyond the imaginations of most civilized people.

As I write to you, I am preparing to leave with other bishops for Nablus with medical and other emergency supplies for five hundred families, and a pledge for one thousand families more.

On Saturday we will attempt to enter Gaza with medical aid for doctors and nurses in our hospital there who struggle to serve the injured, the sick, and the dying.

My plan is that I will be able to go to Lebanon next week - where we are presently without a resident priest - to bury the dead, and comfort the victims of war. Perhaps as others have you will ask, “What can I do?” Certainly we encourage and appreciate your prayers. That is important, but it is not enough. If you find that you can no longer look away, take up your cross. It takes courage as we were promised.

Write every elected official you know. Write to your news media. Speak to your congregation, friends, and colleagues about injustice and the threat of global war. If Syria, Iran, the United States, Great Britain, China and others enter into this war - the consequence is incalculable. Participate in rallies and forums. Find ways that you and your churches can participate in humanitarian relief efforts for the region. Contact us and let us know if you stand with us. I urge you not to be like a disciple watching from afar.

2 Corinthians 6.11
“ We have spoken frankly to you Corinthians, our heart is wide open to you. There is no restriction in our affections, but only in yours. In return - I speak as to children - open wide your hearts also.”

In, with, and through Christ,

The Rt. Rev. Riah H. Abu El-Assal
Anglican Bishop in Jerusalem

On second thought, having been baptized and confirmed in my own religion, and being sympathetic to the Bishop's plight, I will have to set aside my differences with own Church for now and contact the Bishop to let him know that I stand with him, and will not be like a disciple watching from afar.

Skybird · 08-10-06, 01:49 AM

Another case of "somebody's" "self-defense" or "resistance":

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4778575.stm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060810/...in_terror_plot
http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/...841140,00.html

scandium · 08-10-06, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Another case of "somebody's" "self-defense" or "resistance":

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4778575.stm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060810/...in_terror_plot
http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/...841140,00.html

Actually that is none of the above. It is terrorism and likely "blowback". Thankfully the plot was foiled before it could be carried out.

Iceman · 08-10-06, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scandium

Iceman, as the forum's most vocal Christian, I'm curious to know what your response is to this letter from the Anglican Bishop in Jerusalem (or any other practicing Christians here, I myself have too long been agnostic for religious appeals to have any effect on me):

http://www.anglicancommunion.org/acn...0/acns4170.cfm

Quote:

Bishop Riah, the Anglican Bishop in Jerusalem, on the current crisis in the Middle East

Dear Friends,

For the past forty years we have been largely alone on this desert fighting a predator that not only has robbed us of all but a small piece of our historic homeland, but threatens the traditions and holy sites of Christianity. We are tired, weary, sick, and wounded. We need your help.

We have seen and we have been the recipients of the generosity of our American and British friends. We cherish the support of everyone throughout the world who stands with us in solidarity. Daily, I hear from many of them who express outrage at the arrogant and aggressive positions of President Bush, Secretary Rice, Senator Clinton, and Prime Minister Blair. I am saddened to realise just how much the deserved prestige of the United States and Britain has declined as a result of politicians who seem to devalue human life and suffering. And, I am disturbed that the Zionist Christian community is damaging America’s image as never before.

Little more than a week ago, we were focused on the plight of the Palestinian people. In Gaza, four and five generations have been victims of Israeli racism, hate crimes, terror, violence, and murder. Garbage and sewage have created a likely outbreak of cholera as Israeli strategies create the collapse of infrastructures. There is no milk. Drinking water, food, and medicine are in serious short supply. Innocents are being killed and dying from lack of available emergency care. Children are paying the ultimate price. Even for those whose lives are spared, many of them are traumatised and will not grow to live useful lives. Commerce between the West Bank and Gaza has been halted and humanitarian aid barely trickles into some of the neediest in the world.

Movement of residents of the West Bank is difficult or impossible as “security measures” are heightened to break the backs of the Palestinian people and cut them off from their place of work, schools, hospitals, and families. It is family and community that has sustained these people during these hopeless times. For some, it is all that they had, but that too has been taken away with the continued building of the wall and check points. The strategy of ethnic cleansing on the part of the State of Israel continues.

This week, war broke out on the Lebanon-Israeli border (near Banyas where Jesus gave St. Peter the keys to heaven and earth). The Israeli government’s disproportionate reaction to provocation was consistent with their opportunistic responses in which they destroy their perceived enemy.

In her recent article, “The Insane Brutality of the State of Israel,” American, Kathleen Christison, a former CIA analyst says, “The state lashes out in a crazed effort, lacking any sense of proportion, to reassure itself of its strength.” She continues, “A society that can brush off as unimportant an army officer’s brutal murder of a thirteen year old girl on the claim that she threatened soldiers at a military post (one of nearly seven hundred Palestinian children murdered by Israelis since the Intifada began) is not a society with a conscience.” The “situation” as it has come to be called, has deteriorated into a war without boundaries or limitations. It is a war with deadly potential beyond the imaginations of most civilized people.

As I write to you, I am preparing to leave with other bishops for Nablus with medical and other emergency supplies for five hundred families, and a pledge for one thousand families more.

On Saturday we will attempt to enter Gaza with medical aid for doctors and nurses in our hospital there who struggle to serve the injured, the sick, and the dying.

My plan is that I will be able to go to Lebanon next week - where we are presently without a resident priest - to bury the dead, and comfort the victims of war. Perhaps as others have you will ask, “What can I do?” Certainly we encourage and appreciate your prayers. That is important, but it is not enough. If you find that you can no longer look away, take up your cross. It takes courage as we were promised.

Write every elected official you know. Write to your news media. Speak to your congregation, friends, and colleagues about injustice and the threat of global war. If Syria, Iran, the United States, Great Britain, China and others enter into this war - the consequence is incalculable. Participate in rallies and forums. Find ways that you and your churches can participate in humanitarian relief efforts for the region. Contact us and let us know if you stand with us. I urge you not to be like a disciple watching from afar.

2 Corinthians 6.11
“ We have spoken frankly to you Corinthians, our heart is wide open to you. There is no restriction in our affections, but only in yours. In return - I speak as to children - open wide your hearts also.”

In, with, and through Christ,

The Rt. Rev. Riah H. Abu El-Assal
Anglican Bishop in Jerusalem

On second thought, having been baptized and confirmed in my own religion, and being sympathetic to the Bishop's plight, I will have to set aside my differences with own Church for now and contact the Bishop to let him know that I stand with him, and will not be like a disciple watching from afar.

LOL.... hehe...ok

Christians are taught by the bible that Isreal has blinders on until the time of the End of Days when they're eyes will be re-opened.They believe salvation...and what is Salvation...salvation from the Wrath of God Himself ...Christians believe that slavation comes from only one source and that is because of the obedience of Jesus unto Death.That through his blood and body being broken was the atonment or " New Testament" with man has a way back to God..a way back to the garden...in time.Israel or Jewish people believe in Salvation thru the law....we won't get into that but to your question of what I think about this persons letter.I think anyone who knows scripture would never never side against Israel because it well known by most Christians that Israel is God's chosen land...and the Jews are his people even if they are tempoarily blinded He has not turned his back on them and never will.They're eyes are closed until the Gospel of Jesus Christ is preached throughout all the world then God will turn back to Israel.

It is wriiten Heaven is God's Throne ,and Earth is his footstool, and Isreal is the jewel of his eye.He made Israel a peculiar thing it is written and indeed..it is.To side against Israel is to side against God simply and countless Christians here know this and will support them to the end.

This person makes the comment "Ethnic Cleansing"...I don't think that is the case at all, it is war...It is also written scandium that Christ came not to send peace on the Earth but a sword...to set a man at varaince with his neighbor and a mans enimes shall be in his own home.So I know you cannot grasp what I am trying to get at but it is this...those of the flesh concern themselves with things of the flesh and those of the spirit with matters of the spirit....the spiritul and carnal are enemity with each other.

The whole crux of the matter and problem with the world is this...No one man or government can rule so many different peoples without kaos erutping...this is where the Cristian belief is that the anti-christ will attempt this here shortly but what is almost ...almost funny to me is that the nature of evil itself is Kaos and not control...hence there is no unity with evil...anyways this is why God will send the son soon as it is written again....

unless the days be shortened no flesh should be saved.

Jesus bought humans with his own blood and body and we belong to his fold now...the good shepard will return soon to separate the sheep from the goats.

Do I condone killing or death...no...again it is written Death shall be swallowed up in victory...Death is the one thing that should never have been...there is no Death....there is eternity and what we do here each person individualy is what we will be charged with.I believe in the ten commandments and the golden rule and what Christ preached...Love...love sums up ALL laws...love works no ill one who believes in Christ and lives the law of Love then ur doing all you can at the moment...

Now again you ask me...or point to this situation in Israel or even Iraq for that matter....who has the greater love...Osama or Bush....Israel or Hezbolla...? you decide Iran with a leader who says he will wipe Israel off the map...Did Bush ever say he'd wipe Iran off the map? I don't know maybe but not in public and that's for him to deal with.I can only go by the fruits....I see muslim people blowing themselves up by the hundreds and lining up for more...so you tell me Scandium.

scandium · 08-10-06, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

LOL.... hehe...ok

Christians are taught by the bible that Isreal has blinders on until the time of the End of Days when they're eyes will be re-opened.They believe salvation...and what is Salvation...salvation from the Wrath of God Himself ...Christians believe that slavation comes from only one source and that is because of the obedience of Jesus unto Death.That through his blood and body being broken was the atonment or " New Testament" with man has a way back to God..a way back to the garden...in time.Israel or Jewish people believe in Salvation thru the law....we won't get into that but to your question of what I think about this persons letter.I think anyone who knows scripture would never never side against Israel because it well known by most Christians that Israel is God's chosen land...and the Jews are his people even if they are tempoarily blinded He has not turned his back on them and never will.They're eyes are closed until the Gospel of Jesus Christ is preached throughout all the world then God will turn back to Israel.

It is wriiten Heaven is God's Throne ,and Earth is his footstool, and Isreal is the jewel of his eye.He made Israel a peculiar thing it is written and indeed..it is.To side against Israel is to side against God simply and countless Christians here know this and will support them to the end.

This person makes the comment "Ethnic Cleansing"...I don't think that is the case at all, it is war...It is also written scandium that Christ came not to send peace on the Earth but a sword...to set a man at varaince with his neighbor and a mans enimes shall be in his own home.So I know you cannot grasp what I am trying to get at but it is this...those of the flesh concern themselves with things of the flesh and those of the spirit with matters of the spirit....the spiritul and carnal are enemity with each other.

The whole crux of the matter and problem with the world is this...No one man or government can rule so many different peoples without kaos erutping...this is where the Cristian belief is that the anti-christ will attempt this here shortly but what is almost ...almost funny to me is that the nature of evil itself is Kaos and not control...hence there is no unity with evil...anyways this is why God will send the son soon as it is written again....

unless the days be shortened no flesh should be saved.

Jesus bought humans with his own blood and body and we belong to his fold now...the good shepard will return soon to separate the sheep from the goats.

Do I condone killing or death...no...again it is written Death shall be swallowed up in victory...Death is the one thing that should never have been...there is no Death....there is eternity and what we do here each person individualy is what we will be charged with.I believe in the ten commandments and the golden rule and what Christ preached...Love...love sums up ALL laws...love works no ill one who believes in Christ and lives the law of Love then ur doing all you can at the moment...

Now again you ask me...or point to this situation in Israel or even Iraq for that matter....who has the greater love...Osama or Bush....Israel or Hezbolla...? you decide Iran with a leader who says he will wipe Israel off the map...Did Bush ever say he'd wipe Iran off the map? I don't know maybe but not in public and that's for him to deal with.I can only go by the fruits....I see muslim people blowing themselves up by the hundreds and lining up for more...so you tell me Scandium.

Thanks for the response Ice, though I can't agree with everything you've written, I respect the fact that you at least read the letter and took some time to write a detailed reply to my post.

As to where I stand - I often wonder if perhaps I'd be more at home in the Unitarian Church whose religious philosophy seems more in line with my personal philosophy

I am not a pacifist, but as I've said before, I believe that violence - war - should always be the last choice, one to be used only when all other alternatives have been exhausted or when there are no other alternatives possible; and then the force used should be proportional to the threat posed.

I do not condone any form of terrorism. In the present conflict in Lebanon, I see terror being waged by both sides - Hezbollah and Israel - with innocent Israels and Lebanese alike paying the price.

I have been especially ruthless in my posts toward Israel though, not because I in anyway condone the actions of Hezbollah, but because Israel claims the moral high ground in the conflict, has the far superior military force and the full backing of the world's only superpower on its side, yet for every civilian Hezbollah has killed Israel kills 30 in return and displaces a 100,000 more as refugees. To me this is institutionalized state run terror of a scale that makes Hezbollah, Hamas, and Al Qaeda put together look like amateurs.

So who do I side with? None of them, all of them are or have committed atrocities that to me are totally repugnant. Choosing sides in this moral sewer of a "war" is to me impossible.

Skybird · 08-10-06, 04:14 AM

From the German (beware the language!) newspaper Die Welt - a perfect explanation why Hisbollah must be rated as a terror organisation - and actually fulfills all of the EU commision's criterions for that:

http://www.welt.de/data/2006/08/10/991951.html

the author argues that exclusively tactical and diplomatic apprehension prevents Western leaders to follow their own terror criterions. Different to the UN, the EU has a list of criterions to define terror. It's just that they ignore them, and the definition of what terror is in international law'S understanding as well.

All that has not prvented hezbollah to murder more than 1000 people in Israel and throughout Europe.

scandium · 08-10-06, 06:31 AM

Hmm... what would you call this Skybird?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...277717,00.html

Quote:

AS ISRAEL wages war against Hezbollah “terrorists” in Lebanon, Britain has protested about the celebration by right-wing Israelis of a Jewish “act of terrorism” against British rule 60 years ago this week.

The rightwingers, including Binyamin Netanyahu, the former Prime Minister, are commemorating the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the headquarters of British rule, that killed 92 people and helped to drive the British from Palestine.

They have erected a plaque outside the restored building, and are holding a two-day seminar with speeches and a tour of the hotel by one of the Jewish resistance fighters involved in the attack.

Simon McDonald, the British Ambassador in Tel Aviv, and John Jenkins, the Consul-General in Jerusalem, have written to the municipality, stating: “We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated.”

In particular they demanded the removal of the plaque that pays tribute to the Irgun, the Jewish resistance branch headed by Menachem Begin, the future Prime Minister, which carried out the attack on July 22, 1946.

The plaque presents as fact the Irgun’s claim that people died because the British ignored warning calls. “For reasons known only to the British, the hotel was not evacuated,” it states.

Mr McDonald and Dr Jenkins denied that the British had been warned, adding that even if they had “this does not absolve those who planted the bomb from responsibility for the deaths”. On Monday city officials agreed to remove the language deemed offensive from the blue sign hanging on the hotel’s gates, though that had not been done shortly before it was unveiled last night.

The controversy over the plaque and the two-day celebration of the bombing, sponsored by Irgun veterans and the right-wing Menachem Begin Heritage Centre, goes to the heart of the debate over the use of political violence in the Middle East. Yesterday Mr Netanyahu argued in a speech celebrating the attack that the Irgun were governed by morals, unlike fighters from groups such as Hamas.

“It’s very important to make the distinction between terror groups and freedom fighters, and between terror action and legitimate military action,” he said. “Imagine that Hamas or Hezbollah would call the military headquarters in Tel Aviv and say, ‘We have placed a bomb and we are asking you to evacuate the area’.”

But the view of the attack was very different in 1946 when The Times branded the Irgun “terrorists in disguise”. Decades later, Irgun veterans are unrepentant. Sarah Agassi, 80, remembers spying in the King David Hotel.

She and a fellow agent posed as a couple. They danced tangos and waltzes, sipped whisky and wine while they cased out the hotel.

On the day her brother and his fellow fighters posed as Arabs delivering milk and brought seven milk churns, each containing 50kg of explosives, into the building. Ms Agassi waited across the street until her brother rushed out. She said that she then made the warning call to the British command in the hotel.

Sitting in the luxurious hotel lobby, she expressed no regret. “We fought for our independence. We thought it was the right way . . . If I had to fight for Israel, I swear even now I would do anything.”

It seems to me, from reading this article, that the only difference between an Arab terrorist and a Jewish one is that if you're a Jewish terrorist then in Israel they'll elect you Prime Minister .

I suppose somethings never change. And a nice touch on their part disguising themselves as Arabs. And celebrating the act of deliberately killing British citizens with a 2 day celebration - complete with a plaque to commemorate the slaughter - while at the same time levelling Lebanon for their capture of two IDF soldiers, and killing hundreds of "human shields" in the process, is another real touch of class.

Nice use of the civies/shields in the black hats & white shirts too, though I thought only Hezbollah did that (even though its been proven that Israel has been lying about that too).

Iceman · 08-10-06, 03:34 PM

I hear ya Scandium...and I respect everyones pov's even the Muslims believe it or not.I just see a differnt war going on, one fought for the souls of men not for lands.

I am a fisher of men... or a fishermen lol

The simplest command I think I ever heard from the Bible is this...

Fear God and keep His commandements for this is the whole duty of man....along with be fruitful and multiply

.

08-10-06, 01:49 AM	#36
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,629 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Another case of "somebody's" "self-defense" or "resistance": http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4778575.stm http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060810/...in_terror_plot http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/...841140,00.html __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 08-10-06 at 01:55 AM.

08-10-06, 04:14 AM	#40
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,629 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	From the German (beware the language!) newspaper Die Welt - a perfect explanation why Hisbollah must be rated as a terror organisation - and actually fulfills all of the EU commision's criterions for that: http://www.welt.de/data/2006/08/10/991951.html the author argues that exclusively tactical and diplomatic apprehension prevents Western leaders to follow their own terror criterions. Different to the UN, the EU has a list of criterions to define terror. It's just that they ignore them, and the definition of what terror is in international law'S understanding as well. All that has not prvented hezbollah to murder more than 1000 people in Israel and throughout Europe. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-10-06, 03:34 PM	#42
Iceman Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mesa AZ, Arizona, USA Posts: 1,253 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I hear ya Scandium...and I respect everyones pov's even the Muslims believe it or not.I just see a differnt war going on, one fought for the souls of men not for lands. I am a fisher of men... or a fishermen lol The simplest command I think I ever heard from the Bible is this... Fear God and keep His commandements for this is the whole duty of man....along with be fruitful and multiply .