SH4 Yes or No?

[Capt. D]

I have noticed some negative comments regarding another Pacific Theater of Operation Sub Sim - SH4. Some of the comments were the Atlantic was more intense or as the war progressed it became easier in the Pacific and therefore the game will become boring. The Atlantic campaign for the German U-Boats only became more difficult and so the game will continue to be difficult.

I agree there were less and less targets in the PTO as the war drew to a close - in '45, but if you read anything on the Pacific war you must remember we lost 52 boats during the war - 48 of which were lost in the Pacific. As vetern submariners say 52 are still on Eternal Patrol. One the USS Bullhead was lost on Aug. 6, 1945!!! How? Through enemy action in particular aircraft action. 8 boats were lost in '45 and 19 in '44 alone. Those men on the 8 boats lost in '45 sure would argue the "easy" comments and I am sure those boats lost in '44 as less and less Jap shipping were found would also agure on the easy factor.

From the USS Sealion lost in 12/41 to the Bullhead there never was a "milkrun" when a boat went out on patrol. SH4 with all the improvements I am sure it will have will be just a challenging throughout the whole PTO war. More photo recons were done more pilot recoveries were done. These were not easy and there was always the danger of enemy anti submarine patrols.

We talked about Wolf Packs in prior comments. Later in the war packs were formed and sent out to the Sea of Japan. Again not easy and boats were lost. If those who will put the game together and look at our wish lists and make the game interesting, realistic, the game will never be boring.

Those that like the Atlantic war go for it. I have played Aces of the Deep and SH3. These are great sub sims. I have read Iron Coffins and Das Boot. Have the DVD of Das Boot and have watched it many times. However the Atlantic was the Atlantic and the Pacific was the Pacific. Let's have great sub sims each unto it's own. Maybe a senerio could be made to have a US boat go from Groton to Pearl as a start of the sim and incounter a U-Boat along the way. Or, as was the case, encounter a U-Boat in the South West Pacific area. But the main focus of SH4 must be the Pacific.

Hope I did not tread on some toes - just my thoughts on the subject.

Happy Hunting

[STEED]

Well I am looking forward to SH4 next year it will be interesting to fight for the Allies in a new sphere of operations. And we all know one thing, it is going to be a great game.

[Safe-Keeper]

I agree 100%.

I'm looking forward to the Pacific simply for the change of theatre.

As for it becoming more boring the longer you play, I doubt it, simply because I don't see why Ubisoft should implement it that way.

[DS]

I for one am seriously looking forward to the Pacific. I suspect many of those who want to go Atlantic again (Round 3, Ding, Ding...) have not played a Pacific WWII sub sim yet. I've played both, an the Pacific offers things the Atalantic U-boat war simply can not. I can't wait...

[Onkel Neal]

Agreed. It's a new subsim, why would anyone pass on it just because it is not U-boats? True submarine enthusiasts will love it.

[bookworm_020]

I'm looking forward to SHIV as I haven't played a PTO Subsim in years and can't wait to sink my teeth into it.

Can't wait to see what the modders can do with it as well.

Originally Posted by Capt. D

SH4 Yes or No?

SH4 YES!

I'm such a fan of SHI (the original), and I love SHIII's look and feel so much that I can't wait to see the two combined.
S-Boats forever (and Narwhal, Nautilus and the fleet boats, too)!

[Wulfmann]

There is little doubt the war in the Atlantic makes for a better game progression.
That said SH4 could never have been an Atlantic game because it is built with the same engine. It will be an improved SH3 so would have much less commercial success possibility unless it is a new theater.
If this was a major tech advance where say the game would be cinematic instead of animated and we all had 100G Video cards with CPUs of 100 Terabytes and 100GIGs of RM then certainly the Atlantic.
But, I am excited about a whole new area with improved aspects and will enjoy being in the navy my father served in. He served on an S-Boat but before the war so I have no line to that.
There would have been no way they would have made an updated SH3 for the Atlantic. We would have called it the patch they should have given us.
I do hope they include an upgrade patch for SH3 with SH4 for us as well.

What ever they do I just ask one thing.
Finish it right the first time.
Do not make us paying customers be beta testers and start fixing it with our frustrations.
We will wait, please, for the finished product and appreciate it if you do not release prematurely

Wulfmann

[don1reed]

Like many of you, I am totally fascinated with submarines. It doesn't amount to a hill of beans which nationality I simulate; although, I prefer WWII Subs/Uboats. When it comes to submarines, I am a cosmopolitan.

I'm really excited about the upcoming WWI simulation and what Deamon and his gang of WWI experts are putting together for us too. As subsimmers, we are most fortunate indeed, to have all this on our plate in the next couple of months.

The more 3D they become, through modern technologies, the better for all of us.

Best regards,

[Hylander_1314]

Just let us hang the "meatball" flags off the rigging while heading into base.

Personally been waiting for this since the old Silent Service game, on my Packard Bell 486DX2.

And I thought that was great!

[Steeltrap]

I think the real point is that the most important issue is not "which theatre?" but "how well is it simulated?".

In a simulation realism should be king (in so far as a simulation can be 'real'). That means.....
- performance of subs (dive time, max depth, performance on surface/submerged, endurance, armament, radar, radio and encryption, crew, engines - which, for USA subs, is quite complicated, as they have 4 diesels driving via electric engines and/or charging, and there are many variations they used in terms of different power settings while cruising etc).
- performance of targets (speed, turn radii, rates of acceleration, ability of crews to spot subs/torps, station-keeping ability, effects of weather)
- performance of escorts (as per targets above + weapons systems, detection devices, deployment in convoys, doctrinal behaviours)
- convoys (composition, routes, speed, course changes - not crazy fishtailing but not entirely constant, positioning of escorts, realistic numbers/types of escorts)
- physics (performance of systems such as sound/radar, various effects of different light conditions, weather effects on ships' motions/performance, effects of thermal layers/DC explosions on sonar detection)
- weather (variable, realistic for area and time of year)
- aircraft (realistic types, armaments, numbers, performance, detection ability - quite hard to spot a surface vessel from the air unless it is leaving a distinct wake as that's actually what is typically seen, and weather has a BIG effect on this)

Thos are the 'basics'!! Makes you wonder why anyone takes it on!!! Anyway, get those right and I don't care where it is or which 'side'. All the mods done are generally to address failures in those areas, so even SHIII came up short. There's no reason for the developers NOT to know what is needed - the question for me is how well they achieve 'realism' across those areas.

Cheers

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Originally Posted by Steeltrap

I think the real point is that the most important issue is not "which theatre?" but "how well is it simulated?".

In a simulation realism should be king (in so far as a simulation can be 'real'). That means.....
- performance of subs (dive time, max depth, performance on surface/submerged, endurance, armament, radar, radio and encryption, crew, engines - which, for USA subs, is quite complicated, as they have 4 diesels driving via electric engines and/or charging, and there are many variations they used in terms of different power settings while cruising etc).
- performance of targets (speed, turn radii, rates of acceleration, ability of crews to spot subs/torps, station-keeping ability, effects of weather)
- performance of escorts (as per targets above + weapons systems, detection devices, deployment in convoys, doctrinal behaviours)
- convoys (composition, routes, speed, course changes - not crazy fishtailing but not entirely constant, positioning of escorts, realistic numbers/types of escorts)
- physics (performance of systems such as sound/radar, various effects of different light conditions, weather effects on ships' motions/performance, effects of thermal layers/DC explosions on sonar detection)
- weather (variable, realistic for area and time of year)
- aircraft (realistic types, armaments, numbers, performance, detection ability - quite hard to spot a surface vessel from the air unless it is leaving a distinct wake as that's actually what is typically seen, and weather has a BIG effect on this)

Thos are the 'basics'!! Makes you wonder why anyone takes it on!!! Anyway, get those right and I don't care where it is or which 'side'. All the mods done are generally to address failures in those areas, so even SHIII came up short. There's no reason for the developers NOT to know what is needed - the question for me is how well they achieve 'realism' across those areas.

Cheers

I agrie 100% There should be no Zeros as ASW planes. But I am looking foward to the SubPac.

[Frenssen]

It will be interesting to try new boats and equipment. I played SH1 in it`s day and in the early war years it was quite difficult because the boats I had then couldn`t dive very deep to evade deptch charges. It was something like 250 ft/80m if I remember correctly. Later in the war it became easier, but I loved sailing out of Manila in my little boat
As you may have noticed I like being the underdog and the epic struggle in the Atlantic interests me more on a historical level since it`s closer geographically. One thing I never will get used to is the lame "dive dive dive" sequence. I prefer the more dramatic AAAALLLLAAARRRMMM!!!!!!
Anyway, I think it is the right decision to go Pacific this time.

[Greentimbers]

Any new sub sim is a good thing
Started with the pacific, it will be good to go back there.

[JustinReg]

at the end of the day i am just pleased to have a new SH/sub game. Silent Service 2 in the PTO on the commodore 64 was my first sub game, and i really liked it.