S.E.T.I. just isn't a good idea.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Lets see what facts we have,

The writings from people thousands of years ago that say a man claming to be the son of god is walking around the middle east converting people.

Verifiable studies by living scientists saying that the odds are that somewhere in the universe life similar or different than us exist, proof that planets orbit stars like ours and at the same distances as Earth. Unverifiable reports over the centuries of visits by non-human lifeforms, and eye witness (both creditable and uncreditable) reports of encounters with non-human lifeforms and objects.

So, you would not believe that the Great Roman Fire ever occured? Tacitus is the only one to write of it. Yet, we accept it as historical fact. I have listed multiple sources, none Biblical, that have verified the existence of Jesus. What credible reports for aliens are you citing?

Let us see it this way: I want to prove two things. (1) That Jesus was the Son of God. (2) That aliens exist, and are trying to take over the planet. For Jesus, I must prove:

A. That Jesus was an actual figure in history (Done. Tacitus, Suetonius, Josephus, The Talmud and Pilate himself are all regarded at truthful sources by all major historians)

B. That Jesus was indeed God incarnate (not proveable through science or historical record)


For the aliens, I must prove:

A. That aliens exsist (not currently proveable: Only heresay and theory exists. These are not evidences)

B. That aliens are hostile (not proveable due to the fact that point A remains unsolved)

[Godalmighty83]

havent the first radio waves only just left our solar system. i mean the big green nasty aliens are going to have to be mighty close to get anything for a while.

[Wildcat]

Well I'm not going to get into the religion / aliens debate..

But I have to say, if you don't think life exists out there somewhere, you have to be crazy. Basically if there was life formed on our planet, you can sure as hell bet it happened somewhere else too. There are tens of billions of planets out in the universe, and even if our earth is extremely rare, eventually you're going to come upon another planet that's exactly alike. Who knows. There could be a species out there that resembles us exactly, on the other side of the universe.

There's simply no way we're here alone.

The likelyhood that there's life anywhere near us? Pretty low. If there was, we'd probably know about it by now. It's only some 4 light years away. At that rate we'd be shooting back and forth emails to ET.

If there is life around here, they're trying to avoid us.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

But I have to say, if you don't think life exists out there somewhere, you have to be crazy. Basically if there was life formed on our planet, you can sure as hell bet it happened somewhere else too. There are tens of billions of planets out in the universe, and even if our earth is extremely rare, eventually you're going to come upon another planet that's exactly alike. Who knows. There could be a species out there that resembles us exactly, on the other side of the universe.

There's simply no way we're here alone.

Probablity is not evidence. For the record, I have never advocated or disputed any religion on this forum. That topical discussion is too sticky for my tastes.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

I have listed multiple sources, none Biblical, that have verified the existence of Jesus. What credible reports for aliens are you citing?

Reports by the Army of Alexander the Great at Tyre in 329 BC.

Monk and Historian William of Newburgh (1290).

Report by Lt. Frank Schofield U.S.S. Supply 300 miles west of San Francisco.

Reports of 200 unidentified aircraft tracked on radar by Swedish, French, Portuguese, Italian, and Greek militaries in the 50s.

Reports by Jimmy Carter & Neil Armstrong about encounters with UFOs.

Hay why I'm at it why don't I list Ezekiel. (Although I admit he is less than creditable)

And in a less sensational note Carbonyl sulfide has been discovered in the atmosphere of Venus, OCS is suggestive that life of some sort is there.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Reports by the Army of Alexander the Great at Tyre in 329 BC.

Monk and Historian William of Newburgh (1290).

Report by Lt. Frank Schofield U.S.S. Supply 300 miles west of San Francisco.

Reports of 200 unidentified aircraft tracked on radar by Swedish, French, Portuguese, Italian, and Greek militaries in the 50s.

Reports by Jimmy Carter & Neil Armstrong about encounters with UFOs.

Hay why I'm at it why don't I list Ezekiel. (Although I admit he is less than creditable)

And in a less sensational note Carbonyl sulfide has been discovered in the atmosphere of Venus, OCS is suggestive that life of some sort is there.

Those sources all say the same general thing: 'I think I saw something. I don't know what it was. I cannot explain it.' They are no different than Ezekiel, although Ezekiel gave greater detail in his testemony than any of the others. This is not proof. Proof is multiple sources citing the same specific information. For example: Jesus was wandering the countryside, claiming to be the Son of God and attracting a large number of admirers. All of the historical writers agree on this.

[Wildcat]

You don't need absolute proof as an indicator that something exists. For example, in the 1600's it could not be proven that water was made up of several different specific elements. So, those elements do not exist? Or what?

Through the process of electrolysis it can be determined that the gas coming from the water is flammable, but also breatheable.... Deductive reasoning...There's probably oxygen in water. Still can't prove it though without some kind of specific analysis....

Not exactly the same deal with space, but similar. There's literally thousands of billions of stars in the universe. This cannot be disputed, this is known fact. There are even MORE planets in the universe than stars. It is known that there are other systems in the universe with planets at least resembling our own in shape and size.

It would be very naive to think that out of the thousands of billions of planets, no life could exist elsewhere. Even if you can't 'prove' that life is also out there somewhere, the numbers STRONGLY suggest that life IS somewhere out there. We exist. If we exist, someone else exists out there too. The universe is big enough that humans probably will never come into contact with a species from another starsystem or galaxy, but who knows.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Those sources all say the same general thing: 'I think I saw something. I don't know what it was. I cannot explain it.' They are no different than Ezekiel, although Ezekiel gave greater detail in his testemony than any of the others. This is not proof. Proof is multiple sources citing the same specific information. For example: Jesus was wandering the countryside, claiming to be the Son of God and attracting a large number of admirers. All of the historical writers agree on this.

Process of elimination. 'I saw something that wasn't "ours", I saw something that wasn't "theirs", it was not an aircraft as we know it but it was artificially constructed". This is basically what a lot of those statements say, what possibly could it be?

You need multiable confirmed sightings from different sources:
http://www.nicap.org/wnsdir.htm
Here you can find some of the testimony of some USAF F-94 pilots who quite possibly dogfighted with ET over Washington DC.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

You don't need absolute proof as an indicator that something exists. For example, in the 1600's it could not be proven that water was made up of several different specific elements. So, those elements do not exist? Or what?

That is completely illogical, and flies in the face of everything that scientific research stands for. Research in any facet of academia requires nothing short of absolute proof when accepting any new item of existence. This is why molecular structures were not known. Furthermore, I did not ever say that aliens do not exist. I also never said that God does not exist. I said that there was no proof of the existence of either, but there is more proof for God, as you can move beyond step A. (See above)

It would be very naive to think that out of the thousands of billions of planets, no life could exist elsewhere. Even if you can't 'prove' that life is also out there somewhere, the numbers STRONGLY suggest that life IS somewhere out there. We exist. If we exist, someone else exists out there too. The universe is big enough that humans probably will never come into contact with a species from another starsystem or galaxy, but who knows.

Suggestion, even strong suggestion, is not proof either. Yes, we exist, and no idea how we came into being, where we came from, or even how long we have been here. All we have are theories. When it boils down to it, science and archeology's answer to these questions is 'we really don't know'.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Process of elimination. 'I saw something that wasn't "ours", I saw something that wasn't "theirs", it was not an aircraft as we know it but it was artificially constructed". This is basically what a lot of those statements say, what possibly could it be?

In research circles, this is called 'negative deduction/reasoning'. That is to say, 'I know what it is not, but I do not know what it is'. Evidence relies on positive deduction, which, obviously, tells you what the sample, item, object, individual is/are. The problem that UFO research has is that it relies entirely on negative deduction, which is why it is not taken seriously by the other scientific disciplines.

[DangerousDaze]

I'm unconcerned about the threat from aliens. I fear that there are too many people on this planet whose religious beliefs would make then unable to deal with the existance of extra-terrestrial life. I think we'd end up destroying ourselves.

DD

[kiwi_2005]

I think we'd end up destroying ourselves.

We're on that path already mate!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

We're on that path already mate!

Heyyy, shaddup you two! Skybird is the board-Kassandra, so could the hobby-seers and dilletantic doomsday-prophets please get out of my domain...!?!?

[DeepSix]

My last two cents on this:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Lets see what facts we have....

Divinity is not a matter of facts. Science may one day prove or disprove the existence of aliens - created natural beings - but it can neither prove nor disprove the existence of a supernatural creator. Science deals with what can be perceived and measured; faith deals what cannot be perceived or measured ("the evidence of things not seen").

[Wildcat]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

In research circles, this is called 'negative deduction/reasoning'. That is to say, 'I know what it is not, but I do not know what it is'. Evidence relies on positive deduction, which, obviously, tells you what the sample, item, object, individual is/are. The problem that UFO research has is that it relies entirely on negative deduction, which is why it is not taken seriously by the other scientific disciplines.

Research in any facet of academia is usually proven innacurate years after the research was conducted. Sometimes science needs to take a back seat to common sense. Look at the number of planets in the universe and get back to us.. The reality is we are not the only living thing in this universe. Science has no way to prove otherwise, but shear numbers definately lean in the direction of there being life, and a lot of it, somewhere in the universe.

It's more than just naive to think there's nothing else out there.