Malfunctions/Sabotage in SH3Cmdr???

[JScones]

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

Here's a thought-I suppose I could just duplicate each file and re name them 0_data (mid patrol), 1_data(no mid patrol), etc. Then increase the Number in the choose from= line to control the odds.
This way the player would get the same percentage but with 50/50 chance of being "repairable"
What do you think?

Yes. Only thing that comes to mind is that one "fix" may be replaced with another "break" when the patrol is re-loaded. Would this be a problem for people?

[JScones]

Originally Posted by irish1958

Since the files are tweakable in the SH3CMDR, instructions should be written so a monkey can do it.

Hemisent, how helpful are the instructions in the header of randomised events file? Does something more detailed need to be written?

Originally Posted by irish1958

I would test this function on a few computer illiterate persons to see if they can be followed. I'll volenteer for this; or better yet have my wife do it.

Randomised events already exists in SH3Cmdr R2.5 - you can have a play around with it if you like and let me know your feedback/suggestions/comments. They will frame how more detailed the instructions need to be.

Originally Posted by irish1958

Future mods (i.e. Chaos) should be packaged to install easily and not screw up the programs installed (thermal layers, malfunctions, sabotage, player added random events, etc.) Along this line, would it be possible to have several seperate random folders so that when you have randomized an event and are satisfied with it, new additions would be added to a different random folder.
How about a JSGME for SH3CMDR?

I'm wanting to avoid that. The problem is, in one sense I've created something that could very easily get out of control. Not sure how to temper that without crippling flexibility.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

The way Randomized events.CFG is set up it's simply a copy/paste affair.
Once Gouldjg wraps up Chaos and releases it the player simply pastes it into the existing Randomized events.CFG. It will not affect the existing structure unless the new mod uses one of the same files as an existing one. And there is a simple method for dealing with that situation also.

Another suggestion: The prefix used before the : can be anything you like. It's sole purpose is to keep section names distinct. I've always suggested just numbers because they're easiest to implement to ensure distinctness. But you could use something like "HM0:data\..." (as in Hemisent's Malfunctions"), or "Hemisent0:data\..." or whatever. Conversely, Gouldjg could use "CHAOS0:data\...". Thus no conflicts when merging different files together.

[irish1958]

I have messed around with the random folder and I think I have the hang of it. I wanted to add a random fanfar and I searched my music files and came up with about 40. I added them to the random folder this way:
I have 52 subfolders in the random folder;
when I open one (Say #2) I get a sub folder Date
when I open that, I have two subfolders: 1) Hemisent's sabotage folder, 19440601 with its subfolder data/submarine/four subfolders;
2)my subfolder 19390901/data/sound/fanfar.
My question is: since the sabotage mod used 52 folders, do i have to repeat this in all 52 folders to get my fanfars to randomize, or could I have added five or six additional folders with just my fanfar files?
I repeated this in the 52 folders 0,1,2,3...52.
Is it possible to have a seperate random folder for each mod, or does one have to use the above method? Since the sabotage mod used 52 folders to make the odds correct, wouldn't my adding seperate folders screw up the odds? If so,I would be limited to the 52 folders.
irish1958

[JScones]

With SH3Cmdr R2.6, Hemisent's sabotage/malfunctions mod will not use the Random folders, thus you will not be not tied to using 52 folders.

But assuming you do have 52 Random folders for whatever reason, you'd add your fanfar files into the existing 52. As you only have 40 files, you can either:

a) leave 12 folders empty of fanfar files in which case if the folder is selected the stock SH3 file will play
b) duplicate some of your fanfar files into the remaining 12 folders.

Using this method you can blend multiple random mods together.

[irish1958]

Thanks, Jaeson.
I think I have it now.
irish1958

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by JScones

Yes. Only thing that comes to mind is that one "fix" may be replaced with another "break" when the patrol is re-loaded. Would this be a problem for people?

Yes I'm finding that now, I really don't know the answer except to drastically increase the odds. Drastically increasing the odds then gives the feeling that you never see anything happening-too subtle/why did I install the mod in the first place. I wonder if this is something that should:
A. Be left as repairable mid patrol for the not so hard core users.
B. Let the hard core guys modify it to their individual liking-most will be able to make adjustments to satisfy their individual tastes plus with good instructions included the needed changes really aren't that difficult.

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by JScones

Hemisent, how helpful are the instructions in the header of randomised events file? Does something more detailed need to be written? .

My personal opinion is that they need to be simplified a great deal as not everyone can understand all the symbolism used by those for more computer knowledgable. To be honest, the only reason I have been able to get this far is because of all the numerous back and forth PM's between yourself, Gouldjg and me. Plus the many, many posts on different threads that you have responded to. Keep in mind that Gouldjg and I are really the only ones that I am aware of to have delved into randoms from the beginning with a whole lot of assistance from you we're making great progress.
In the end the procedure itself is simple but understanding the proper format is the key.
I have a file containing all the posts and examples from the beginning that I use to keep things clear.
I believe a user friendly tutorial is badly needed and with your new randomization process it's needed more than ever.
If you want to after the initial release of 2.6 I would be glad to help with a tutorial at least with the random examples I already have on file.

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by JScones

Another suggestion: The prefix used before the : can be anything you like. It's sole purpose is to keep section names distinct. I've always suggested just numbers because they're easiest to implement to ensure distinctness. But you could use something like "HM0:data\..." (as in Hemisent's Malfunctions"), or "Hemisent0:data\..." or whatever. Conversely, Gouldjg could use "CHAOS0:data\...". Thus no conflicts when merging different files together.

That's right, I forgot this part. To avoid confusion down the road (especially with Chaos coming soon) would you suggest I re-name Malfunctions/Sabotage before I send you the final drafts. Something simple like MAL0:data, MAL1:data etc.
Please advise as I just finished the XXI boats and I'm doing final testing tonight before sending the latest merged set to you

[JScones]

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

Yes I'm finding that now, I really don't know the answer except to drastically increase the odds. Drastically increasing the odds then gives the feeling that you never see anything happening-too subtle/why did I install the mod in the first place. I wonder if this is something that should:
A. Be left as repairable mid patrol for the not so hard core users.
B. Let the hard core guys modify it to their individual liking-most will be able to make adjustments to satisfy their individual tastes plus with good instructions included the needed changes really aren't that difficult.

Maybe A to attempt to appease more people (hah!). Instructions to change for others may be helpful.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

My personal opinion is that they need to be simplified a great deal as not everyone can understand all the symbolism used by those for more computer knowledgable. To be honest, the only reason I have been able to get this far is because of all the numerous back and forth PM's between yourself, Gouldjg and me. Plus the many, many posts on different threads that you have responded to. Keep in mind that Gouldjg and I are really the only ones that I am aware of to have delved into randoms from the beginning with a whole lot of assistance from you we're making great progress.
In the end the procedure itself is simple but understanding the proper format is the key.
I have a file containing all the posts and examples from the beginning that I use to keep things clear.
I believe a user friendly tutorial is badly needed and with your new randomization process it's needed more than ever.
If you want to after the initial release of 2.6 I would be glad to help with a tutorial at least with the random examples I already have on file.

Yeah, but remember, you started from scratch and blazed the trail (in a way, you even started before I wrote the functionality!). Everyone else now has yours and gouldjg's lead and examples to go by. So that should make it a bit easier for others.

But I would love for you to help with the tutorial.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by HEMISENT

That's right, I forgot this part. To avoid confusion down the road (especially with Chaos coming soon) would you suggest I re-name Malfunctions/Sabotage before I send you the final drafts. Something simple like MAL0:data, MAL1:data etc.
Please advise as I just finished the XXI boats and I'm doing final testing tonight before sending the latest merged set to you

Yes. That would be great.

[JScones]

BTW Hemisent, check your PM.

[HEMISENT]

Just another thought on mid patrol repairs.
As it stands right now the Sabotage/Malfunctions categories are:

Snort extend time
Periscope optical effects
Flak guns
Radar
These 4 are miscellaneous files

Then there are 2 sub files:
NSS_UboatXX.CFG
NSS_UboatXX.SIM

Right now they are mostly repairable mid patrol. What do you think about
having the one category or the other non repairable. That may strike a balance between the two sides of the discussion.

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by JScones

Yes. That would be great.

I'll do that tonight. Along with any last minute changes. Other than that I'm just re-testing the XXI boat in different years then they're done.