Greywolves TOO hard!! - Page 3

Enfilade · 04-05-06, 06:55 PM

I'm a big fan of the NYGM Tonnage ship damage model. Even though it makes me grit my teeth when those ships refuse to sink quickly! That, after all, is the point of the model. I'm sure things will be tweaked but I like the extra challenge and uncertainty provided by the mod... especially combined with 100% realism settings. If you follow the extensive manual's tips on the best aiming points for torpedoes and deck gun, you will have much better luck. That said, you still might have to wait hours or even days in some cases for a ship to go down. Much better than a guaranteed 'arcade style' parade of ships that just go boom imho. NYGM's crew management system too (tonnage-morale based) is a vast improvement over other models that I've used.

04-05-06, 07:05 PM

I'm glad some of you like the damage mod part of GW, but I still think it is unrealistic for a U-boat to have to launch more than 3 of anything at any class of ship for it to sink.

It seems like it should be more like this give or take a torp.

1 torp for small cargo
2 torp for medium
3 torp for large cargo.

1 torp for destroyer
certainly 1 torp for an armed trawler
1 for a cruiser, 2-3 for BBs and CVs.

Right now it's like this...

5-8 for armed trawler? WTF!?!
10+ for anything else? WTF!?!
God knows how many it takes for a fishing vessel to go down!?!

Go home empty handed to BdU and let them know you launched everything at the enemy and yet still not even a mere enemy fishing vessel would sink.

It makes finding a convoy worthless since you won't get anything out of it!

I don't understand how 10 torps in one area of a ship is not going to do anymore damage? It seems to me that 10 torps would cut a ship in half if they all hit the same spot. 2 torps would cut most ships in half if they hit the same spot. So this damage moddelling is way out of whack. It's like a luck game now even though most U-baot Captain knew roughly how many torps it would take to bring a specific vessel down and where to hit them at.

It's like tring to sink ships with nerf torpedoes and BBs from the deck mounted pellet gun.

The damage modding part of the GW's mod gets a BIG thumbs

I'm afraid! It ruins the rest of what is such a wonderful thing like a nasty piece of mold on yet such a fresh looking piece of bread. I shall begin tweaking away at the GW mod to better suit my taste since I like the rest of the mod. I don't need indestructable ships. Just that part of the mod makes this game not worth the play!

bsalyers · 04-05-06, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubSerpent

Right now it's like this...
5-8 for armed trawler? huh?!?!
10+ for anything else? huh?!?!

That has not been my experience at all. It sounds like you are interpreting the posts of those who like the GW damage model to mean something along the lines of "We like it when it takes 10 torpedoes to sink a ship." That's not what we're saying. We're saying it takes 2 or 3 if done correctly.
I am using the GW mod and my experience has been nothing like you described. I am playing on 97% realism (event cam on) and I just sank a large tanker with 2 torpedoes. I launched 3, but the first 2 eels split her in half, so the 3rd was not necessary.
Since many of us enjoy the challenge of the mod, while others feel it is too difficult, perhaps the legitimate conclusion is that it's simply not for everyone, rather than that it should be made easier for those who do not like it.

Kpt. Lehmann · 04-05-06, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWorth

I personally have no problems sinking ships..

These are my findings and results with the NYGM mod that is in Grey Wolves after playing quite a few patrols and testing...

Small Merchants= 1-2 torpedoes
Medium Merchants= 1-3 torpedoes
Large Merchants= 2-4 torpedoes

Destroyers= 1-2 torpedoes
Cruisers= 2-3 torpedoes
Battleships and Carriers= 3-5 torpedoes

All the above are +/- 1 or 2 torpedoes depending on circumstances and if I aimed well or not and had no duds.

Deck gun I really can't say as I don't use it very frequently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilamon

I first noticed the indicator for fuel compartment, keel and etc last night while hunting and used them pretty effectively, but I had a quest about what conditions allows the compartments to show. I didn't see them pop up til I was about 880 meters away and a 60-120 AOB but I can't quntify that as exact since my speed seemed to be an indicator as well in addition to who know what else (I saw the compartment indicator vanish a couple times while targeting). Would someone clarify this?

The indicators show up once you are inside 1000m of the ship.

As for angle I only have them show up at or very near 90Âº AOB.

Thanks Mr Salyers. You've hit the nail on the head.

From my favorite part of the NYGM damage model readme (Statement of intentions.) "
Not Your Grand Mothers Ship Damage Mod
Design goals-
To make ships sink by flooding
To create as far as possible, realistic sinkingâ€™s
To create as far as possible, realistic sinking times
To keep the player guessing
To have a non Uber deck gun
How to use the deck gun
To compensate for the torpedo above par attributes."

Attention SubSerpent sir... further information reveals that the results you wish to see for torpedo expenditure vs sinkings IS generally occurring. Please read the above quotation of CWorth.

finchOU · 04-05-06, 08:24 PM

not to shift gears...(read threadjack

)....but what does the damage model do with respect to ship's speed with flooding? Does flooding slow it down?...or is it a HP value that slows them down??

Kpt. Lehmann · 04-05-06, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finchOU

not to shift gears...(read threadjack

)....but what does the damage model do with respect ship's speed with flooding? Does flooding slow it down?...or is a HP value that slows them down??

Nearly 100% of the time I have noticed an increasing reduction in speed as the ship floods.

Occasionaly I have noticed the screws come out of the water as ships sink/flood by the bow... and never have I witnessed ships continued movement when in this condition.

panthercules · 04-05-06, 08:43 PM

I'm beginning to wonder if maybe there's some sort of bug (maybe corrupted download file or something) affecting some people's experience with the NYGM damage mod - these threads begin to sound a lot like some of the tech support threads I always used to see over on the IL-2 forums - a few people would report something bad happening to them, and the majority of folks would post back that there was nothing wrong because they weren't experiencing the problem on their machines.

Personally, I love this mod, and have never experienced any of the problems posted about by some of these poor folks. In the 4 (well, 3 and 1/2) patrols I've made since I loaded up this mod (first with the .36 version, then the .39 version, and now GW), I've sunk about 30 ships. None have been "invincible" or required an inordinate number of torps to sink them - a few have exploded and sunk in a few minutes, the majority have probably sunk within a couple of hours or so, and a small number have needed a third torpedo after several hours of waiting. I've finished off maybe 5 or 6 with my deck gun after hitting them with just one torp, usually averaging about 30-40 shots apiece.

So, like a lot of us, my experience with this thing has been pretty near perfect (though the deck gun seems maybe a tad nerfed - but that's another thread

). However, obviously some people here really do seem to be experiencing situations that are just crappy - I know I'd be ticked if it were taking me 10 or more torpedos to sink something. It's too bad the solution for them probably isn't as simple as "update your drivers" or some of the other things that used to solve those tech forum problems over on IL-2, 'cause they're really missing out on something sweet when it works.

Boris · 04-05-06, 09:27 PM

I think the NYGM model is not all that bad, and I still like it better than stock... yet every so often I get annoyed at it.
While ships are destroyed from sinking now, I thik it often takes too long and tends to look strange. For example a compartment will flood, but not really sink... you can wait a few hours... and then she goes down really suddenly (this happens sometimes).
Larger cargo ships like c2 and c3s tend to take about 3 hits in different areas... but often I have noticed that they appear to run out of hitpoints at this stage. I don't know if its a critical hit on the third or something, but the upper deck tends to catch fire and i get a ship destroyed message, after which it still takes about 20 mins to go down.
And why shouldn't more torpedoes i one area make a differece? It should at least sink faster...
Just some small gripes... I would like to see the smaller ships sink a little quicker too, small merchants should really only take one most of the time. I hardly ever bother finishing them off with the deck gun as this takes ages.

Dutch · 04-05-06, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubSerpent

I'm glad some of you like the damage mod part of GW, but I still think it is unrealistic for a U-boat to have to launch more than 3 of anything at any class of ship for it to sink.

It seems like it should be more like this give or take a torp.

1 torp for small cargo
2 torp for medium
3 torp for large cargo.

1 torp for destroyer
certainly 1 torp for an armed trawler
1 for a cruiser, 2-3 for BBs and CVs.

Right now it's like this...

5-8 for armed trawler? huh?!?!
10+ for anything else? huh?!?!
God knows how many it takes for a fishing vessel to go down!?!

Go home empty handed to BdU and let them know you launched everything at the enemy and yet still not even a mere enemy fishing vessel would sink.

It makes finding a convoy worthless since you won't get anything out of it!

I don't understand how 10 torps in one area of a ship is not going to do anymore damage? It seems to me that 10 torps would cut a ship in half if they all hit the same spot. 2 torps would cut most ships in half if they hit the same spot. So this damage moddelling is way out of whack. It's like a luck game now even though most U-baot Captain knew roughly how many torps it would take to bring a specific vessel down and where to hit them at.

It's like tring to sink ships with nerf torpedoes and BBs from the deck mounted pellet gun.

The damage modding part of the GW's mod gets a BIG thumbs

I'm afraid! It ruins the rest of what is such a wonderful thing like a nasty piece of mold on yet such a fresh looking piece of bread. I shall begin tweaking away at the GW mod to better suit my taste since I like the rest of the mod. I don't need indestructable ships. Just that part of the mod makes this game not worth the play!

5-8 for merchants.....I have never fired more than 2 at any size merchant from Coastal to C2 to C3...never and I've gotten the same results, slow to dead in water hvy listing, I MAY have to on occasion surface and put a few under the water line but thats rare, the ships sink. I don't think your giving them time your used to the sink in 5 mins, thats unrealistic, the only ship I know of that sank in under 5 mins to my knowledge is the Hood, well the Edmond Fitzgerald sank in like 30 secs but thats different.

THE_MASK · 04-05-06, 10:06 PM

Regarding the sounds . Go to sound options and put the speech sounds back on zero . I noticed that for some reason speech after installing grey wolves was minus twenty or something like that .

BigBadVuk · 04-06-06, 06:44 AM

Hey i started NEw career with GW on 100% no weps assist,no external camera..Just me,my crew and my u-boat....

in the beggining it was a bit wierd to see behaviour of damaged ships but now when i get used to it ..this is great!..It adds that 1 final point to this game...so badly needed:UNCERTAN things...u can sink DD with 1 hit..and next time u can put 3 fishes and nothing will happen!

GO for it guys...i will never return to stock version of SH3! :rotfl:

04-06-06, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panthercules

I'm beginning to wonder if maybe there's some sort of bug (maybe corrupted download file or something) affecting some people's experience with the NYGM damage mod - these threads begin to sound a lot like some of the tech support threads I always used to see over on the IL-2 forums - a few people would report something bad happening to them, and the majority of folks would post back that there was nothing wrong because they weren't experiencing the problem on their machines.

Personally, I love this mod, and have never experienced any of the problems posted about by some of these poor folks. In the 4 (well, 3 and 1/2) patrols I've made since I loaded up this mod (first with the .36 version, then the .39 version, and now GW), I've sunk about 30 ships. None have been "invincible" or required an inordinate number of torps to sink them - a few have exploded and sunk in a few minutes, the majority have probably sunk within a couple of hours or so, and a small number have needed a third torpedo after several hours of waiting. I've finished off maybe 5 or 6 with my deck gun after hitting them with just one torp, usually averaging about 30-40 shots apiece.

So, like a lot of us, my experience with this thing has been pretty near perfect (though the deck gun seems maybe a tad nerfed - but that's another thread

). However, obviously some people here really do seem to be experiencing situations that are just crappy - I know I'd be ticked if it were taking me 10 or more torpedos to sink something. It's too bad the solution for them probably isn't as simple as "update your drivers" or some of the other things that used to solve those tech forum problems over on IL-2, 'cause they're really missing out on something sweet when it works.

I think that you may be on to something there. Perhaps some of the downloaded mods have been altered in some way by some people that want the mod to be extremely impossible or something.

I tried it again last night with my same configuration and still the same thing and this times I used a spread of 4 torps against 1 medium cargo (1 in the bow, 1 just after the bow, 1 just in front of the stern, and 1 at the stern). All hit and still the cargo ship just kept sailing along like it hadn't been hit at all!

My conclusion.

I am not going to spend 2 days downloading GW again. Once was enough and the most of the mod is there. I may have downloaded the GW impossible version or something...

So

I am just going to tweak my version to my taste to be more of what I feel is realistic.

Montbrun · 04-06-06, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubSerpent

Quote:

Originally Posted by panthercules

I'm beginning to wonder if maybe there's some sort of bug (maybe corrupted download file or something) affecting some people's experience with the NYGM damage mod - these threads begin to sound a lot like some of the tech support threads I always used to see over on the IL-2 forums - a few people would report something bad happening to them, and the majority of folks would post back that there was nothing wrong because they weren't experiencing the problem on their machines.

Personally, I love this mod, and have never experienced any of the problems posted about by some of these poor folks. In the 4 (well, 3 and 1/2) patrols I've made since I loaded up this mod (first with the .36 version, then the .39 version, and now GW), I've sunk about 30 ships. None have been "invincible" or required an inordinate number of torps to sink them - a few have exploded and sunk in a few minutes, the majority have probably sunk within a couple of hours or so, and a small number have needed a third torpedo after several hours of waiting. I've finished off maybe 5 or 6 with my deck gun after hitting them with just one torp, usually averaging about 30-40 shots apiece.

So, like a lot of us, my experience with this thing has been pretty near perfect (though the deck gun seems maybe a tad nerfed - but that's another thread

). However, obviously some people here really do seem to be experiencing situations that are just crappy - I know I'd be ticked if it were taking me 10 or more torpedos to sink something. It's too bad the solution for them probably isn't as simple as "update your drivers" or some of the other things that used to solve those tech forum problems over on IL-2, 'cause they're really missing out on something sweet when it works.

I think that you may be on to something there. Perhaps some of the downloaded mods have been altered in some way by some people that want the mod to be extremely impossible or something.

I tried it again last night with my same configuration and still the same thing and this times I used a spread of 4 torps against 1 medium cargo (1 in the bow, 1 just after the bow, 1 just in front of the stern, and 1 at the stern). All hit and still the cargo ship just kept sailing along like it hadn't been hit at all!

My conclusion.

I am not going to spend 2 days downloading GW again. Once was enough and the most of the mod is there. I may have downloaded the GW impossible version or something...

So

I am just going to tweak my version to my taste to be more of what I feel is realistic.

The only strange occurance that I've had is that, after recieving the "Ship Sunk" message, and getting credit, the ship animation itself continues along on it's merry way - the "sinking ship" animation doesn't kick in. I'm wondering if this has something to do with some of these issues.

This has happened (rarely) with GW, NYGM, and the Rubini "combined" GW and NYGM.

Kpt. Lehmann · 04-06-06, 07:54 AM

@Subserpent

Another option would be to just download part 4 again by itself and enable it in JGSME. Part four contains all the ship DM's.
Your choice of course.

04-06-06, 07:55 AM

I'm happy with NYGM and GW running together, I think the ship damage model is brilliant and very very realistic. I have never yet had to fire more than 3 Ts into a ship to get it to sink.

However, I do have one issue. Sometimes, to finish off a ship and to save Torpedos, I surface, catch some fish and throw them at it. I've noticed that it can take up to a million fish to sink a boat, yet othertimes I can sink it with a a couple of well placed Tuna or a particularly nasty smelling Mackeral.

Is this normal ? From what I've read about U-Boats, it should be possible to sink a ship with 10 Cod say, and half a dozen pieces of Halibut. Perhapps a little attention to realism is needed here.

04-05-06, 06:55 PM	#1
Enfilade Gunner Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 91 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'm a big fan of the NYGM Tonnage ship damage model. Even though it makes me grit my teeth when those ships refuse to sink quickly! That, after all, is the point of the model. I'm sure things will be tweaked but I like the extra challenge and uncertainty provided by the mod... especially combined with 100% realism settings. If you follow the extensive manual's tips on the best aiming points for torpedoes and deck gun, you will have much better luck. That said, you still might have to wait hours or even days in some cases for a ship to go down. Much better than a guaranteed 'arcade style' parade of ships that just go boom imho. NYGM's crew management system too (tonnage-morale based) is a vast improvement over other models that I've used. __________________

04-05-06, 08:43 PM	#7
panthercules The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,336 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I'm beginning to wonder if maybe there's some sort of bug (maybe corrupted download file or something) affecting some people's experience with the NYGM damage mod - these threads begin to sound a lot like some of the tech support threads I always used to see over on the IL-2 forums - a few people would report something bad happening to them, and the majority of folks would post back that there was nothing wrong because they weren't experiencing the problem on their machines. Personally, I love this mod, and have never experienced any of the problems posted about by some of these poor folks. In the 4 (well, 3 and 1/2) patrols I've made since I loaded up this mod (first with the .36 version, then the .39 version, and now GW), I've sunk about 30 ships. None have been "invincible" or required an inordinate number of torps to sink them - a few have exploded and sunk in a few minutes, the majority have probably sunk within a couple of hours or so, and a small number have needed a third torpedo after several hours of waiting. I've finished off maybe 5 or 6 with my deck gun after hitting them with just one torp, usually averaging about 30-40 shots apiece. So, like a lot of us, my experience with this thing has been pretty near perfect (though the deck gun seems maybe a tad nerfed - but that's another thread ). However, obviously some people here really do seem to be experiencing situations that are just crappy - I know I'd be ticked if it were taking me 10 or more torpedos to sink something. It's too bad the solution for them probably isn't as simple as "update your drivers" or some of the other things that used to solve those tech forum problems over on IL-2, 'cause they're really missing out on something sweet when it works. __________________

04-06-06, 06:44 AM	#11
BigBadVuk Ensign Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Belgrade,Serbia Posts: 222 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Hey i started NEw career with GW on 100% no weps assist,no external camera..Just me,my crew and my u-boat.... in the beggining it was a bit wierd to see behaviour of damaged ships but now when i get used to it ..this is great!..It adds that 1 final point to this game...so badly needed:UNCERTAN things...u can sink DD with 1 hit..and next time u can put 3 fishes and nothing will happen! GO for it guys...i will never return to stock version of SH3! :rotfl: __________________ Any ship can submerge.. Only submarine can surface!

04-06-06, 07:54 AM	#14
Kpt. Lehmann GWX Project Director Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 6,994 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	@Subserpent Another option would be to just download part 4 again by itself and enable it in JGSME. Part four contains all the ship DM's. Your choice of course. __________________ www.thegreywolves.com All you need is good men. - Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock

04-05-06, 07:05 PM	#2
SubSerpent Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I'm glad some of you like the damage mod part of GW, but I still think it is unrealistic for a U-boat to have to launch more than 3 of anything at any class of ship for it to sink. It seems like it should be more like this give or take a torp. 1 torp for small cargo 2 torp for medium 3 torp for large cargo. 1 torp for destroyer certainly 1 torp for an armed trawler 1 for a cruiser, 2-3 for BBs and CVs. Right now it's like this... 5-8 for armed trawler? WTF!?! 10+ for anything else? WTF!?! God knows how many it takes for a fishing vessel to go down!?! Go home empty handed to BdU and let them know you launched everything at the enemy and yet still not even a mere enemy fishing vessel would sink. It makes finding a convoy worthless since you won't get anything out of it! I don't understand how 10 torps in one area of a ship is not going to do anymore damage? It seems to me that 10 torps would cut a ship in half if they all hit the same spot. 2 torps would cut most ships in half if they hit the same spot. So this damage moddelling is way out of whack. It's like a luck game now even though most U-baot Captain knew roughly how many torps it would take to bring a specific vessel down and where to hit them at. It's like tring to sink ships with nerf torpedoes and BBs from the deck mounted pellet gun. The damage modding part of the GW's mod gets a BIG thumbs I'm afraid! It ruins the rest of what is such a wonderful thing like a nasty piece of mold on yet such a fresh looking piece of bread. I shall begin tweaking away at the GW mod to better suit my taste since I like the rest of the mod. I don't need indestructable ships. Just that part of the mod makes this game not worth the play!

04-05-06, 08:24 PM	#5
finchOU Samurai Navy Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 571 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	not to shift gears...(read threadjack )....but what does the damage model do with respect to ship's speed with flooding? Does flooding slow it down?...or is it a HP value that slows them down??

04-05-06, 09:27 PM	#8
Boris Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 1,691 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 0	I think the NYGM model is not all that bad, and I still like it better than stock... yet every so often I get annoyed at it. While ships are destroyed from sinking now, I thik it often takes too long and tends to look strange. For example a compartment will flood, but not really sink... you can wait a few hours... and then she goes down really suddenly (this happens sometimes). Larger cargo ships like c2 and c3s tend to take about 3 hits in different areas... but often I have noticed that they appear to run out of hitpoints at this stage. I don't know if its a critical hit on the third or something, but the upper deck tends to catch fire and i get a ship destroyed message, after which it still takes about 20 mins to go down. And why shouldn't more torpedoes i one area make a differece? It should at least sink faster... Just some small gripes... I would like to see the smaller ships sink a little quicker too, small merchants should really only take one most of the time. I hardly ever bother finishing them off with the deck gun as this takes ages.

04-05-06, 10:06 PM	#10
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	Regarding the sounds . Go to sound options and put the speech sounds back on zero . I noticed that for some reason speech after installing grey wolves was minus twenty or something like that .

04-06-06, 07:55 AM	#15
Uber Gruber Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I'm happy with NYGM and GW running together, I think the ship damage model is brilliant and very very realistic. I have never yet had to fire more than 3 Ts into a ship to get it to sink. However, I do have one issue. Sometimes, to finish off a ship and to save Torpedos, I surface, catch some fish and throw them at it. I've noticed that it can take up to a million fish to sink a boat, yet othertimes I can sink it with a a couple of well placed Tuna or a particularly nasty smelling Mackeral. Is this normal ? From what I've read about U-Boats, it should be possible to sink a ship with 10 Cod say, and half a dozen pieces of Halibut. Perhapps a little attention to realism is needed here.