Is Moscow still hoping for a nuclear showdown or what ? - Page 3

The Avon Lady · 03-29-06, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Gotta admit, Putin is exactly what Russia needs, they need a strong leader who's not going to tow the line of the western world...and they got him

What western line is that? Freedom and democracy?

What are you referring to? :hmm:

Oberon · 03-29-06, 09:49 AM

Touche, but you can't instantenously introduce Democracy to a country used to only communist ways. After all, the sudden introduction of Democracy to Iraq is going so well, is it not?

August · 03-29-06, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Touche, but you can't instantenously introduce Democracy to a country used to only communist ways. After all, the sudden introduction of Democracy to Iraq is going so well, is it not?

Dunno about that. Constitution written and adopted in 3 years? It took the US, what, 11 years after the Revolutionary war to come up with a Constitution?

The Avon Lady · 03-29-06, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Touche, but you can't instantenously introduce Democracy to a country used to only communist ways. After all, the sudden introduction of Democracy to Iraq is going so well, is it not?

I fully agree with you on this point. I do think that Russia needs a strong leader. I do think that Russia needs a special mix for reform, regulation and liberties.

But Putin frightens me. I get the feeling that he's not going one step back to eventually go 2 steps forward. I feel he's going to take a few more reverses and in the process make things worse for Russia, not better. To me he's Mr. Command and Control.

Oberon · 03-29-06, 09:58 AM

I quite agree with you AL, when I said Putin was good for Russia, I didn't say that he was good for all of us. But then again, what is good for Russia has not always been the same as what is good for the rest of Western Europe. While I'm no Sovieophile (is that even a word?) I have no wish to see a return to the days of detente.

scandium · 03-29-06, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Touche, but you can't instantenously introduce Democracy to a country used to only communist ways. After all, the sudden introduction of Democracy to Iraq is going so well, is it not?

Dunno about that. Constitution written and adopted in 3 years? It took the US, what, 11 years after the Revolutionary war to come up with a Constitution?

Its a rather worthless piece of paper when there's no capability to enforce it.

STEED · 03-29-06, 10:09 AM

In the last years of communist rule in Russia under Gorbachev he saw that a new age was dawning and took steps to open up the Soviet Union. This was the correct thing to do but they were those who wanted to run head long strait in to democracy the result a power struggle and in the end Yeltsin won that power struggle. And look what happen one gigantic mess he created, to busy drinking and doing a spot of dancing in front of the cameras. Result the Soviet Union fragmented and then broke up, the only thing Yeltsin got right was that surprise announcement of his resignation, leaving the government in the hands of the little-known Prime Minister Vladimir Putin. Who is repairing the damage step by step it may be slow but itâ€™s the right way to do it.

August · 03-29-06, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scandium

Its a rather worthless piece of paper when there's no capability to enforce it.

At the time there was little or no federal capability to enforce the US constitution either, the Continental Army having been disbanded...

scandium · 03-29-06, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Quote:

Originally Posted by scandium

Its a rather worthless piece of paper when there's no capability to enforce it.

At the time there was little or no federal capability to enforce the US constitution either, the Continental Army having been disbanded...

The US 11 years after its revolutionary war doesn't compare well to present day Iraq which is on the brink of civil war. This is where enforcement capability matters.

August · 03-29-06, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scandium

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Quote:

Originally Posted by scandium

Its a rather worthless piece of paper when there's no capability to enforce it.

At the time there was little or no federal capability to enforce the US constitution either, the Continental Army having been disbanded...

The US 11 years after its revolutionary war doesn't compare well to present day Iraq which is on the brink of civil war. This is where enforcement capability matters.

I disagree.

Kapitan · 03-29-06, 03:25 PM

The divide in Iraq has been there for many a year infact its been there even before saddam came to the scene, infact the one good thing about saddams regieme was he soley stopped a civil war.

Now they have removed him iraq will be the next somalia pretty much garentted i mean what is 1,600 troops a few tanks and air craft going to do, to a few million armed vengeful iraqies.

By day they are the friends, By night the enamy.

kiwi_2005 · 03-29-06, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Don't be naive!

Oh Shaddup Avon! Only reason the west back israel is cos they need as many friends as they can get.

You would make a good politian

Sixpack · 03-29-06, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

Quote:

Don't be naive!

Oh Shaddup Avon! Only reason the west back israel is cos they need as many friends as they can get.

You would make a good politian

In light of the overall quality of your post, I am sure she'll take that as a compliment

Happy Times · 03-29-06, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

Quote:

Don't be naive!

Oh Shaddup Avon! Only reason the west back israel is cos they need as many friends as they can get.

You would make a good politian

They do it mostly because many Israelis roots are in the West and because it the ONLY democracy in the region. There are a millionnew imigrants in Israel from the former USSR, but they dont get support for Israel from that direction, they get growing anti semitism and support for Iran and Hamas.

kiwi_2005 · 03-29-06, 04:43 PM

Quote:

In light of the overall quality of your post, I am sure she'll take that as a compliment

Just jiving with ya Avon. I know the crushing feeling of despair when ya haven't got ya Barrett

03-29-06, 10:09 AM	#37
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	In the last years of communist rule in Russia under Gorbachev he saw that a new age was dawning and took steps to open up the Soviet Union. This was the correct thing to do but they were those who wanted to run head long strait in to democracy the result a power struggle and in the end Yeltsin won that power struggle. And look what happen one gigantic mess he created, to busy drinking and doing a spot of dancing in front of the cameras. Result the Soviet Union fragmented and then broke up, the only thing Yeltsin got right was that surprise announcement of his resignation, leaving the government in the hands of the little-known Prime Minister Vladimir Putin. Who is repairing the damage step by step it may be slow but itâ€™s the right way to do it. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

03-29-06, 03:25 PM	#41
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	The divide in Iraq has been there for many a year infact its been there even before saddam came to the scene, infact the one good thing about saddams regieme was he soley stopped a civil war. Now they have removed him iraq will be the next somalia pretty much garentted i mean what is 1,600 troops a few tanks and air craft going to do, to a few million armed vengeful iraqies. By day they are the friends, By night the enamy. __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

03-29-06, 09:49 AM	#32
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Touche, but you can't instantenously introduce Democracy to a country used to only communist ways. After all, the sudden introduction of Democracy to Iraq is going so well, is it not?

03-29-06, 09:58 AM	#35
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	I quite agree with you AL, when I said Putin was good for Russia, I didn't say that he was good for all of us. But then again, what is good for Russia has not always been the same as what is good for the rest of Western Europe. While I'm no Sovieophile (is that even a word?) I have no wish to see a return to the days of detente.