NYGM and GW - Ship Damage FAQ

[Der Teddy Bar]

Jungman,
The latest public version of the NYGM Ship Damage Mod was 1.39. This version included the NYGM Aircraft Damage Mod that had removed the Auto Stabilser from the deck gun and removed the AA Laser Guided ability to hit aircraft. 1.39 may still be floating around somewhere.


The NYGM Ship Damage Mod V2 rev 1.53 & the NYGM U-boat Mod V1 rev 0.04 are currently in beta testing.


The aim of the NYGM Ship Damage Mod Ver 2, within the limitations of the SHIII Damage Engine, is to make the ships more intuitive to sink with both more consistency and variation and to reward those who shoot well.

The NYGM Ship Damage Mod Ver 2 is a result of NYGM being able to now add, remove & change zones for any SHIII vessel or plane.

I can say that the NYGM Ship Damage Mod Ver 2 will be a big improvement over the first version. We will have improvements in many areas such as being able to design the zones to the ship and add extra zones such as ‘bulkheads’ etc. We also will address the biggest issue in getting the default SHIII ships to sink, and that is shared zones.

Shared zones has been a big issue, for example, the original Tug boat shared zones with the medium to large merchant ships under New Merchants & Escorts under New Escorts. NYGM have taken the Small Merchant ship from 5 shared zones to 12 exclusive zones.

I must dispel the idea that we have the ability to make a perfect Ship Damage Mod. I do not have the time to detail how or the many quirks in the way that damage is applied/calculated etc, these limit what can be done and are a constant challenge to me when rezoning the ships to be both more predicable and at the same time have variation while not having the WO instantly reporting 'Enemy Ship Sunk' and attempting to ensure that the ships cannot be gamed.


Ships included in NYGM SD V2 rev 1.53
The Fishing Boat – 1-3 deck gun hits or up to 100 20mm
Small Coastal Vessel & Trawler – 2-5 deck gun hits or up to 200 20mm
Elco – 1-4 deck gun hits or up to ?? 20mm
Tug Boat – 1+ torpedo and very sinkable with the deck gun.
Small Merchant – 1-3 torpedoes
Tramp Steamer/Coastal Merchant – 1-3 torpedoes
Coastal Tanker by AG124 – 1+ torpedo
Lake Merchant by AG124 - 1+ torpedo


1+ torpedo means that most of the time the ship will sink with 1 torpedo.
1-3 torpedoes means that it should take no more than 3 torpedoes, and has a high chance of sinking with 1 torpedo.


NYGM have also implemented 'sink' zones that ensure that a ship will sink when it should. That is, on occasion a ship would be 2/3rds sunk with water across the cargo holds with the player possibly being credited with sinking the ship, or it may require a few rounds before it will go under fully. This will now not be the case. These new 'sink' zones will come into their own during heavy seas as when the ship you attacked bobs into and out of the water, there is a chance that the new zone will slowly flood and sink a ship that in calmer seas would not have sunk.

88mm Deck Gun update...
During some in game testing I discovered that the smaller blast radius of the 88mm gave a disproportionate result compared with the 105mm and has been the cause of end users complaints over its performance. Testing so far supports the fact that to accommodate the need to flood the ship the blast radius of the 88mm needed to be larger.


Deck Gun Update...
I have also changed the minimum & maximum HP to try and get some unpredictable variation into the deck gun. My concern is of course giving back an uber deck gun or the opposite of an air rifle. My hope is that the HP range will have the effect of sometimes getting an easy kill and at other times a hard kill but never either or.


The NYGM U-boat Mod V1 rev 0.04
NYGM have implemented a feature where the u-boat can no longer hover at all stop. At all stop, the u-boat will slowly sink. I would have preferred to have positive buoyancy but that is not possible.

Sink rates in minutes per 10 metres (rule of thumb)
II = 12 – 13, VII = 15, IXB = 19, IXC & IXD2 = 21

I have been able to maintain depth at 1 knot. As a result of the NYGM U-boat once the u-boats battery runs out instead of being able to stay submerged and actually moving for days afterwards you will sink requiring you to perform an emergency blow.

[Maui]

Thanks for the update Teddy. The sink zones sound like a *great* idea. Should make for a more realistic slide into the ocean after going vertical? I'm anxiously waiting...

btw, how does one become part of your beta test team? Is it "open"?

This new direction is sounding very good to me.

[Jungman]

Thanks for the update, but can someone please post a link to the latest NYGM Ship Damage Mod v 1.39 ?

I tried searching the forum, and Terrapin's site to no avail.

It is not included it would seem in the Tonnage War version 1.03.??

[Der Teddy Bar]

Originally Posted by Jungman

Thanks for the update, but can someone please post a link to the latest NYGM Ship Damage Mod v 1.39 ?

I tried searching the forum, and Terrapin's site to no avail.

It is not included it would seem in the Tonnage War version 1.03.??

It is included in the NYGM Tonnage War version 1.03.

All previous NYGM mods were part of the NYGM Tonnage War Mod, they were released as previews of what was to come.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Originally Posted by Maui

Thanks for the update Teddy. The sink zones sound like a *great* idea. Should make for a more realistic slide into the ocean after going vertical? I'm anxiously waiting...

btw, how does one become part of your beta test team? Is it "open"?

It is a very exclusive club :rotfl:

Beta testing the NYGM Ship Damage Mod is actually hard work and requires commitment. You need to precisely note every detail of the attack from the precise torpedo hit location/s (also same for the deck gun) to the time and how the the ship sunk to when the NA announces the ship sunk etc

NYGM strive for historical realism, no disrespect intended, something that a lot of players have no knowledge of. That is, they have a view of how many torpedoes or shells it should take with no foundation in fact/s.

This is not to say that I am always right, and I am always open to others showing me that there is evidence to the contrary etc

Finding Beta Testers with a historical understanding, realistic expectations & understand that NYGM cannot fix everything and who then will put in the hard yards is difficult. It is the reason it took 2 months from completion to bring the original version out and why it will be many weeks at best before this preview version will be published.

[Maui]

Gotcha. Though, as a software engineer, I think probably understand your pain of people having unachievable expectations and "wrong" ideas about how things should work. (ie, management).

That being said, it doesn't sound like I'd have the time to devote that you would need anyway....

[Vermin]

When the second torpedo detonates in/on a compartment already partly flooded, you previously noted there may be catastrophic structural dame (or not).

However the shockwave would be transmitted to the adjacent bulkheads and would be almost guarrteed to at least spring them - )probably causing them to buckle or even collapse). Either way there would be significant flooding in adjacent compartments.

There is therefore a sound argument for having additional hits in the same spot causing flooding in adjacent compartments, regardless of the damage radius of the torpedo.

Whether this is possible to model in the game I do not know!

I have found the NYGM to be the most enjoyable (and as a U-Boat Kpt - frustrating!) DM. Sometimes I long for the days of insta-BOOM!

Now should I fire my last torp. at that cripple or go for another small one!

Thanks again for a great mod.


cuasing

[booger2005]

Originally Posted by Vermin

When the second torpedo detonates in/on a compartment already partly flooded, you previously noted there may be catastrophic structural dame (or not).

However the shockwave would be transmitted to the adjacent bulkheads and would be almost guarrteed to at least spring them - )probably causing them to buckle or even collapse). Either way there would be significant flooding in adjacent compartments.

There is therefore a sound argument for having additional hits in the same spot causing flooding in adjacent compartments, regardless of the damage radius of the torpedo.

Whether this is possible to model in the game I do not know!

I have found the NYGM to be the most enjoyable (and as a U-Boat Kpt - frustrating!) DM. Sometimes I long for the days of insta-BOOM!

Now should I fire my last torp. at that cripple or go for another small one!

Thanks again for a great mod.


cuasing

Not only that, but if you somehow managed to get a torp though the hole left be the previous torp, it would detonate against the far wall inside the compartment and there would be a significant chance of blowing the ship in 2. Kretchmer did this to sink one of his aux. cruisers, not sure if it broke in two but it caused tremendous damage.

Anyway, I think you'll find in the NYGM readme that there is the same small chance for critical damage in a compartment no matter if its flooded or not, and since the chance is small, already flooded compartments are to be avoided in NYGM like the plague. Limitations of the game.

[Salvadoreno]

Ive kinda seen a pattern..

Usually if i torp a ship (regardless of how many torps) and it doesnt sink in 30--40 minutes, then it wont sink. Ive followed ships that have listed and settled deeper in the water, but they dont sink and they fight on.. usually another torp always does the trick..

Ver 2 gonna address this issue?? Ive yet to torp a ship and witness it sink 2-3 hours later..

But watching those ships fill up and in 30 minuts u start hearing those ship sinking sounds, really satisfying

[Der Teddy Bar]

Originally Posted by Salvadoreno

Ive kinda seen a pattern..

Usually if i torp a ship (regardless of how many torps) and it doesnt sink in 30--40 minutes, then it wont sink. Ive followed ships that have listed and settled deeper in the water, but they dont sink and they fight on.. usually another torp always does the trick..

Ver 2 gonna address this issue?? Ive yet to torp a ship and witness it sink 2-3 hours later..

But watching those ships fill up and in 30 minuts u start hearing those ship sinking sounds, really satisfying

I have actually had a few ships sink several hours later but it is more the exception than the norm.

I had erred on the side of the end user in the sinking times as even the reasonably quick sinking times are a massive departure from the BOOM to 5 minutes of the original.

Currently only the small ships listed have been done and they are designed to be quickish sinkers.

[Salvadoreno]

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

I have actually had a few ships sink several hours later but it is more the exception than the norm.

I had erred on the side of the end user in the sinking times as even the reasonably quick sinking times are a massive departure from the BOOM to 5 minutes of the original.

Currently only the small ships listed have been done and they are designed to be quickish sinkers.

Ahhh very good, it is the larger ships i do have trouble with. Though one time i hit the bow of a hospital ship and it went on for at least an hour before it suprisingly sunk bow first. It was cool. Any idea about ship damaged v2 or NYGM Tonnage War 2.0?? So far my favorite mod, brilliant.

[malcymalc]

Salvadoreno wrote:
[quote]Though one time i hit the bow of a hospital ship and it went on for at least an hour before it suprisingly sunk bow first.

Ok I'll bite - were you targetting the Hospital Ship or was this just a cock up?

Also Teddy: I notice you mentioned that you had zoned AG124's Lake Merchant (at least for Ship Damage v2) - does this mean that release of this model may be ...imminent?

Regards
Malcolm

[malcymalc]

Well that certainly did not come out the way I intended!!

Malcolm

[Der Teddy Bar]

I notice you mentioned that you had zoned AG124's Lake Merchant (at least for Ship Damage v2) - does this mean that release of this model may be ...imminent?

Regards
Malcolm

Yes and No....
Yes as the ship has been as fars as sinking etc goes re-zoned and ready for prime time.

No as I have a small issue saving the DAT file that causes the texture to be lost. As this ship has been redone from another there is a lot of residue 'parts' etc left over that I must remove and they are DAT related.