Sea Wolves - Submarines on Hunt

[Wulfmann]

Messenger, I am not sure if you understand one basic truth here, UBI is the author or owner of the authored work and holds the rights to them. They have given X-1 permission to modify the files of SH3 for an expansion package. X-1 is not using other people's mods. They are making their own in the same manner others do.
I have a few dozen of their ships never seen anywhere else that I know they made themselves..
They have legal permission for this and no one else does.
Name one thing they have in this Mediterranean package that belongs to someone else.
Please.
I say you do not know what you are talking about and are making false and misleading claims that are baseless.
Proof me wrong!

Wulfmann

[ME$$ENGER]

Originally Posted by Wulfmann

Messenger, I am not sure if you understand one basic truth here, UBI is the author or owner of the authored work and holds the rights to them. They have given X-1 permission to modify the files of SH3 for an expansion package.

Ubisoft has given them the permission to MOD the game like what Beery and Jones did. Saying Ubisoft authorized X1 Soft to make a 3rd party commercial expansion carries about as much weight as nothing since it is completely irrelevant to this issue. That simply means Ubisoft tolerates commercial mods. Using someone's work without permission for profit though, is stealing not modding. Even if you did the majority of the work, as long as someone's material has been used, you need to obtain permission and provide credits. As for my proof, see this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=40628

If that's not enough, try google.

I do have to admit though, the version analyzed in the thread is obviously not the latest one in the market. Thus we might never know what exactly is still there(or not there).

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by ME$$ENGER

I do have to admit though, the version analyzed in the thread is obviously not the latest one in the market. Thus we might never know what exactly is still there(or not there).

Seawolves came out about 5 months ago, people analysed it and so far they couldn´t come up with anything that showed that X1 has broken any laws.

[Salvadoreno]

arguing aside. How is this small exp?? Is it pretty much everything the modders have done??

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by Salvadoreno

arguing aside. How is this small exp??

It´s total crap compared to what you can get for free. Seawolves is ok for certain groups of people, but it´s over-priced.

[Wulfmann]

Messenger, you seem to ignore any relevant fact that does not support you rant.
UBI has authorized, not tolerated, not ignored, they have authorized X-1 to make the expansion and X-1 sends their stuff to UBI for approval.
No one but X-1 has this authorization and your claim of stealing somebody’s work was not followed by a single example.
As G said, nothing was done unlawfully.
I do agree G, I liked the free mods better than what was in X-1's first package.
This second package is huge by comparison and has many, many new things of which no one should buy that does not like X-1 to which they will not care!
This one will be a good thing for non downloaders and for those that want more ships, Black Sea and Salamis campaigns but has so much activity in the Med it is rush hour. While that makes for better gaming, it does not simulate actual events. Although, many things are based on real events and things like Juno and Berlin are great. Small convoys in the Med are added much more like the many Tobruk ones that were real and I have seen more German air attacks on allied ships in a few career missions than I have seen in 8 months of SH3 play (which would be none).
Once I dove quickly thinking the DD had spotted me because it was blasting away. But, there were no splashes and I noticed the flashes were going upward. By the time I got there one DD was sunk, the other was making a fast track away and there was only a damaged cargo left for me to finish off. Damn greedy Luftwaffe getting all the credit!
I have a Seawolves beta version and my personal heavily modded version that I also add those things from Seawolves I like.
There is a whole lot I like but I want it my way.
Once a modder always a modder.

Wulfmann

[Salvadoreno]

uh.. seawolves sounds pretty sweeet... Besides the heavy traffic in med, what else is bs?

[Marhkimov]

I want some of their ships...

Too bad I'm a cheapskate who doesn't like payware expansion packs.

[kiwi_2005]

I'm all for an add on to SH3, I'm sure many of you remember SH2 and there were a bunch of guys who set about an add on for that. It was called "Pacific Aces."

Remeber that addon well, very good. Also the Aces Campaign that was good also. I had bad ocean display in SH2 well not bad but wasn't good to look at - bluey darkish color, Yet my computer at the time was well above the specs required. Then someone put out a mod for ocean display and i tweaked the settings abit and got the water display to have that glass effect, crystal clear.

Man it would of been good to see a US addon for SH3. Hurry up SH4.

[rogerbo]

Wulfmann, what's so strange for me is to understand that IF UBI gave the authorisation to that Add on then why is it a banned theme on the Official UBI Forum ?? (specialy in the German Forum)
So either they don't want that ppl. know it exist and/or is authorized by UBI or it's just not realy authorized by them.

You say that you did a lot of testing for x-1 but did you REALY see this authorisation or did they just tell you they have it ?

[Wulfmann]

We discuss it freely on the UBI site in the US but I have no idea what happens in Germany.
.
My only association with X-1 is the same offer I made to UBI (which they ignored) that I would comment on the project from the position of historic relevance.
X-1 took me up on this second project.
I had nothing at all to do with advising on the first X-1 release, do not have it and even turned down a request for a copy of it.
I like my modded version.
For me to follow what they are doing they send me the beta Seawolves Mediterranean as it progresses and I comment. I might add while they have taken a lot of my advise they are not making this to my taste but more for gaming. Their conversions have resulted in some very nice models and some I have advised they delete, advise they have ignored!
They did buy a Conway’s so I could give them a basic reference I could point to making it easier for me to relate.
It is a cross between many actual events and ships but exaggerated for increased game play.
I commented to X-1 that this extra activity will not be well received by the purist to which they replied this was not being made for the purist.
I must admit if I were making a commercial project I too would scale it to be more profitable and reach a wider audience.
The modding community is not their audience.
As far as being connected with UBI, well, X-1 has blatantly stated they have authorization and would certainly have put themselves in serious legal jeopardy if that was not true.
Often I have been told they are sending this or that to UBI for approval on different things which either shows UBI keeps some control or X-1 is conducting a huge libelous rouge.
The cross burning mod will believe what they want and X-1 simply does not care what they think and I don’t blame them at all.
Wulfmann

[VonHelsching]

I would be willing to pay for an expansion pack of SH3, only if the expansion pack developer had the SDK and could do things such as:

- Add new playable subs
- Change AI of DDs
- Convert other hardcoded features to options

I bet that 1-2 months after the release of the X1 Med Expansion Pack, that we will see a series of new mods called R(M)uB (Real Mediterranean U-boat), IMuB, Holyhood Med, NYGM MedCapaign, Salamis HT 1.85, Uboat Med Ace and Marhk's Med Madness

Unless "Med" is to be copyrighted by X1 :rotfl:

[Wulfmann]

Well VH, don't hold your breath UBI is letting bthem expand and edit and not giving up the core stuff.

As far as R(M)UB, IMuB etc I do hope you are right because we will want to make it suit our "purist" taste to which it is not being made.

Wulfmann

[Col7777]

After reading more of this topic and OK I was ignorant at first not knowing X-1 was a company.
This made me think of my other interest Flight sim, for those of you who also do FS, isn't there lots of models of aircraft almost everyday being released, so if say I made a model of such and such aircraft then someone also made the same model and used SIMILAR methods to make it, did he steal my model or did he do as the others did and use the same model making tools?
The same goes for add-on scenery, there is lots of it in FS some free some payware, do the scenery designers use SIMILAR methods as each other?
I got to thinking about all the mods and ideas people did and had in SH2, so didn't we get some of them in SH3, we had a wish list for SH3 so may be some more of that wish list is in this add-on pack.
But going back to the flight sim idea, there is lots of payware for that, some of it isn't as good as the freeware and people do post on forums saying so, some of the payware has bugs, there is good and bad, so are we being too harsh before we see this package?

[Wulfmann]

C7777, Because X-1 in their first add on thought (very foolishly) that it would be a good idea to also take the freeware mods and add them to their payware package as an option. This community found out and reacted with strong objection, as should be expected. But after righting the wrong or misstep they have been on a witch hunt.
X-1 released their mediocre package with only their and approved mods but many still assumed even those were stolen and ranted and foamed way beyond reason.
Still, one can understand their resentment to X-1 and this community will never have much but contempt for X-1 no matter what they do in the future.
I do see their point.
But, I also see that X-1 had downloaded the mods and was considering them as adding to their stuff when people here obtained the link and illegally downloaded X-1's stuff to prove their point. It was not proof X-1 was using it but had it and having it is not wrong but using it would be. But, they hadn't!! (Whether they would have, who knows? Some here know for sure, that you can bet on!). So they published with no unapproved mods but the resentment remains and always will.
But, notice it was OK for the do gooders to illegally DL X-1s property. The mod community is above the law!
I also understand that many do not have the time or desire to mod, edit DL etc their SH3 and Seawolves reaches many such people that want their product. It also increases the base of sub sims and supports the future of sub sims. Some are so hell bent on boycotting X-1 they would rather no new SH4 be built than allow X-1 to succeed and expand our base. I still see why they feel this way but would rather out base be expanded to insure a future game. It was reported there would be no SH4 but finally sales reached a point where they decided to do SH4, Halleluiah. Barley just barely. Did Seawolves help this? Probably not. But it did not hurt it because it went Gold and I can assure you the Mediterranean will be a big hit despite the whiners here.
Flight sim mods have had their share of similar things of that I also know.

Wulfmann

If Russel Crow was flying this victorious plane; what kind of plane would it be?
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