Countdown for Steel Beasts Pro: NEW 15 MIN.-VIDEO

[Skybird]

TIS has changed dramatically and according to the guys who know the real world stuff, it now is far closer to reality. You better forget the supervision that SB1's TIS was giving you. In SB1, TIS was giving you crystalclear vision of 5 km. In SBP you will be able to identify unit type and identity on TIS at ranges of let'S say 2 km or less, where as beyond 3 km you will only see a hotspot but cannot tell what it is, and at around 4 km or so (it depends) you will not see anything anymore. so, often you will see THAT there is something, but not WHAT it is. For TIS vision beyond 3 km I think you need good environmental and weather conditions. Also be aware that now tanks can remain to be close to invisible eventually when showing you their frontal armor, whereas they shine much brighter on TIS when you have a view at their (hotter) backs. TIS simply is not that "über" that it was before. Foliage and vegetation, white background noise, lowered resolution and the reduction of representation of background textures reduce your view even further. It has become far more complex and tricky to use daylight and TIS optics. They say that under optimal conditions a well-hidden tank with foliage behind and around him will be invisible on your TIS even if he is relatively close (far less than 2 km) - until he opens fire. This is said to be the way SPB does simulate it - because the real tankers say it is like that in reality. TIS is no magic vision anymore. And I applaude for that.

[TteFAboB]

Well, I guess the video is meant to display the sight's usefulness even during daylight.

But those dark tanks are begging for a lighter paintjob:


Or I guess it doesn't matter since they are all out in the open, so they just need a darker background :

[Skybird]

Environmental shadows are not yet implemented, that'S why forest for example happen to look quite light - from above. But looking at them from ground level, units and their camouflage patterns often "melt" into the background given by forests quite nicely. Shadows are not yet included, because the military never demanded that feature. It seems it does not think that the lack of these change the simulation's realism for the worse.

Look at those shots at far away tanks with daylight optics. you hardly can see the targeted tanks too clearly, can you!?

Shadows are said to come later, along with night-daylight-cycles and more complete weather effects (fog, storm, rain). So far visibility conditions due to sandstorms, f.e., are implemented by directly reducing or increasing vision range via mission editor only. Which at least in desert scenarios doesn't look bad at all.

SB2, not released before 2008, probably, will be more game-oriented and thus feature more graphical gimmicks. All these feature are planned to be added to SPB as well while they are developed for SB2. They plan to release an addon (note that I do not say: "patch") every 5-6 month.

I agree, though, that the art of defining a colour palette that way so that the shadowed aspects of an object and the side it presents to the source of lights both look realistically and don't differ too much in contrast, so far has not been mastered by any sim that I know. Shadowed side of objects often look too dark, often almost black, while the enlightened sides of that object looks unrealistically bright. the biological phenomenon of human eye adopting to changing light conditions so that the changes in our relative and subjective perception do not appear to be as big as they are in physical reality has never been included in any sim so far. But all in all the colour palette of SBP seems to be much better than that of most other sims and games that I do know.

[Skybird]

Nice screenshot. Leo2A5 - awesome tank! The A6EX-variant has even stronger armor. M1A3, Leo2A5 and Challenger2 - not much space left for any other tank to find a place in that club. Don't know about the Merkava, though. T-90 - robust, but inferior Sabot (not enough money for building large ammounts of ammunition to equip their large tank army, so they need to produce cheaper ammo), and I wouldn't bet money on their sensors, optics and ergonomics as well. But tough nuts to crack they are.

[TteFAboB]

I agree, it is a great challenge to make objects merge nicely with the virtual enviroment, but it is interesting to hear the military doesn't want shadows, perhaps they plan to engage in combat always during noon? Catch the enemy while they're having lunch.

Lionhead's latest games have quite decent shadow effects but those are much simpler games, very distant from sims, and far more devoted to eye-candy.

While good graphics are always welcome (SH3), the best strength of this sim is definitely the realism, it's like Dangerous Waters on land, but better.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

I agree, it is a great challenge to make objects merge nicely with the virtual enviroment, but it is interesting to hear the military doesn't want shadows, perhaps they plan to engage in combat always during noon? Catch the enemy while they're having lunch.

Not that they wouldn't accept shadows if they get it for free. I think they consider it to be of minor effect only, so they do not ask for it, usually having different demands with higher priority. And judging by screenshots I tend to agree with that. But the military customer is what gives eSim it's income. It's that customer, not us interested novices, whose demands decide the form and content of the sim.

While good graphics are always welcome (SH3), the best strength of this sim is definitely the realism, it's like Dangerous Waters on land, but better.

If I jump over to the DW forum and tell them that, this time I would get crucified, no doubt

It's a study sim, "study" not refering towards immense manuals, but learning tactics and operating with formational cohesion, and developing a good plan and timetable. It is easy to learn how to operate the tanks and vehicles - tactics is what makes this sim so difficult, and firing in emergency mode, with secodary sights only and LRF gone. SBG was the most lethal sim/game I ever played, even more so than Flashpoint. I excpect SBP to be even more unforgiving on my mistakes.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

Why so much night-vision? Isn't it easier to spot the dark tanks against the light background?

It's not a night-vision sight its a "Thermal" sight. You can see temperature variences that is camoflaged that you can't see with your eyes. Should see a guy taking a pee with thermals. And no I didn't make a habit of trying to watch guys pee

[Oberon]

All this groundpounding has made me dust off my copy of M1 tank platoon 2....

And, yup, I still can't get the hang of it

But that's the fun of it, the learning curve, reminds me of my early days on the 688 on Fast Attack, you should have seen how many times I ate torpedoes back then

[bradclark1]

Whats the diff between PE and SB2? Besides the price and SB2 coming out later.

(Edit)
Never mind I checked the site. It comes with a paper manual for English users too. PDF for everyone else.

I want to get this but I only have the minimum for processor and vid card.
Can't think of a safe way to tell my wife I want a $125.00 game either.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

Whats the diff between PE and SB2? Besides the price and SB2 coming out later.

(Edit)
Never mind I checked the site. It comes with a paper manual for English users too. PDF for everyone else.

SB2 will be cleaned of many options and features that are considered to be complicating gameplay for standard gamers. Probably it will receive more attention for it'S graphics.

But saying again: what is planned to be added or invented for
a.) the military's version of SBP (non-PE ); and
b.) SB2
will find it's way into cost-free addons/updates for SBP-PE as well. SB2 and SBP-PE are currently not likely to be compatibile, though. SBP-PE is currently expoected to become the standard for the hardcore of SB-community.

Don't start waiting for SB2. I would be surprised if it is coming before 2008. All it's military customer's orders and wishes eSim has currently put on ice since some months, to concentrate on getting the PE version out. after that is done, they will need relocate more ressources to their real source of income, of course. They cannot afford to concentrate on game-developement alone.

[TteFAboB]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

It's not a night-vision sight its a "Thermal" sight.

Yes, it has a fancy name doesn't it, but wasn't it originally designed to be used at Night and then someone noticed it was also usefull even during daylight?

Anyway, I don't know if the sim simulates this, but I would tend to think it would be more usefull during the night because without the (sun) the tanks would contrast even more from everything else, or not, what do I know. :P

Originally Posted by Skybird

If I jump over to the DW forum and tell them that, this time I would get crucified, no doubt

I can rephrase that: This sim is like Dangerous Waters with all auto-crew on, but better.

[joea]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

I can rephrase that: This sim is like Dangerous Waters with all auto-crew on, but better.

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[Wim Libaers]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

Yes, it has a fancy name doesn't it, but wasn't it originally designed to be used at Night and then someone noticed it was also usefull even during daylight?

Normal night vision equipment amplifies light from the visible spectrum. Thermal viewers amplify thermal IR radiation. The difference is that in the first case, light levels determine how bright an object will be in the viewer. So, with normal night vision, on a dark moonless night, you still won't see very much. Use normal night vision on smething bright, and it becomes useless (and older models without overload protection would be damaged). Thermal shows the temperature. So even in the darkest night, a tank with a running engine will still be clearly visible.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by joea

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Definately.

[TteFAboB]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

Definately.

Since when are we talking about Maxis Sim Farm?