TMA: auto or do-it-yourself ? - Page 3

Nydrre · 07-17-05, 11:40 PM

First of all I'ld like to say that Subguru's manuals helped me understand TMA better. The game manual left me confused on lead/ lag situations. The more you practice TMA the more you will pick up on how it works. You might be confused at first but practicing will let everything fall into place.

Secondly I have just started to practice using TMA. So far I have rerun the Kilo demo mission, and combined with the manual programming of the torpedos came up with a better firing solution than I did with auto TMA. I used autocrew TMA at first, then went manual and came up with my own solution by locking in the speed from the DEMON display.

TMA gives you much more insight to whats going on in a given situation. It is the accumulation of all your sensor data. Putting that sensor data together gives you better insight into whats happening on the nav map, and using TMA gives you a better insight into whats happening with your sensors. It also allows you to focus on the target you are after. If you want to instinctively know whats really going on you should at least know how TMA works.

I think it is important to manually use all of the stations, but this can be hard to do especially in a fast moving situation. I look forward to playing MP where I can work the same platform as someone else. Soon I'll be looking for MP where TMA autocrew is not an option.

I haven't voted yet, but most likely I will end up using TMA manually in conjunction with manual presetting of the weapons. TMA autocrew may be useful for an initial solution, but in the end I think its better to use your own.

Using TMA also provides you with insight into tactics and how to manuever to get the most out of your sensors.

Bellman · 07-18-05, 08:09 AM

Well said !

MaHuJa · 07-18-05, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wim Libaers

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaHuJa

I'd really like to see the "line wipe" function in the subs tma, though. Removing bogus lines would help a bit.[/i]

Is the function to select history time (right click on TMA plot) not useful for that?

Sure, if you're willing to lose the entire previous leg's worth of data - AND it is far enough back in time to remove it.

(Do you get which lines I'm talking about?)

Zerogreat · 07-18-05, 01:23 PM

I use TMA on manual. It seems to me that when using it on auto, i am missing big part of the fun :hmm: Last time when i used auto TMA was in Jane's 688(I) Hunter/Killer

SquidB · 07-18-05, 01:28 PM

I seriously think that people should use Manual TMA in multiplayer.

The Auto crew are just too good, and its a major part of the sim, I know it can get busy, but just priorities the contacts you need to.

TMA can be terribly hard, but also rewarding when you do get it right.

Nexus7 · 07-18-05, 05:26 PM

[quote="SquidB"]
TMA can be terribly hard, but also rewarding when you do get it right.

[/quote

]

As said durind ASAT, TMA is an art. As such, you need to pracice it, in order to, maybe, master it... one day.

When you master this art you're supposed to go a step up, or even two (OK, a few steps).

To those that pretend to learn TMA in 30 minutes... that's plain overestimating yourselves... or your instructor...

What do you do if the contact changes course and speed? Frequently? Assuming you have a single array contact ?

Practice makes the master... but also a good instructor is necessary.

PeriscopeDepth · 07-19-05, 01:22 AM

In DW, I use auto TMA. But I'm curious about manual TMA. I do manual TMA when playing SHI, plotting from radar and the occasional periscope bearing only plot (though if it's close enough to see I normally don't bother with plotting, just visually estimate AOB and range. speed can be tricky though). It's a pretty simple process here, just plot bearing and range, account for ownship movement, and connect the dots and use simple math to get target speed after you measure his course. Then plot an intercept.

I'm assuming you guys plot with pencil and paper in DW also? Or can you do everything from the TMA screen? If you do plot with paper and are going off of sonar bearings only, do you guys mathematically determine the range (I remember seeing formulas for this before, way back in the SC forum) or guestimate? Maybe I'll give manual TMA in DW a whirl.

MarkShot · 07-19-05, 01:05 PM

I am actually playing SC and SC/SCXIIc/SCU. However, I wish there was the following buttons available:

TMA ALL AUTOCREW: ON/OFF

TMA THIS AUTOCREW: ON/OFF

Meaning it would be nice to be able leave autocrew handling non-critical contacts while you manually focused your TMA efforts on nearby threat like a sub. Thus, you could set a default mode for ALL and also select particular contacts for the autocrew to leave alone.

MarkShot · 07-19-05, 01:15 PM

One question: The TMA autocrew cheats when it comes to towed arrays, right? I mean even with no other sensor contact or turns, the autocrew always manages to determine the actual from the false contact.

On the negative side, TMA autocrew fails to use DEMON or WAA. So, for initial contacts and contacts that are varying speed/course, the autocrew is more likely to be completely thrown. It has also been my impression that the delayed turning of the TA also seems to confuse the autocrew for a number of minutes.

Nexus7 · 07-19-05, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkShot

I am actually playing SC and SC/SCXIIc/SCU. However, I wish there was the following buttons available:

TMA ALL AUTOCREW: ON/OFF

TMA THIS AUTOCREW: ON/OFF

Meaning it would be nice to be able leave autocrew handling non-critical contacts while you manually focused your TMA efforts on nearby threat like a sub. Thus, you could set a default mode for ALL and also select particular contacts for the autocrew to leave alone.

I agree. Unlike SC, DW provides a switch button aTMA ON/OFF, but applies for all contacts...

Bellman · 07-19-05, 09:08 PM

MarkShot wrote-

''Meaning it would be nice to be able leave autocrew handling non-critical contacts while you manually focused
your TMA efforts on earby threat like a sub. Thus, you could set a default mode for ALL nd also select particular
contacts for the autocrew to leave alone.''

Good suggestion - a great focus - worth putting forward to SA.

Molon Labe · 07-20-05, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkShot

One question: The TMA autocrew cheats when it comes to towed arrays, right? I mean even with no other sensor contact or turns, the autocrew always manages to determine the actual from the false contact.

On the negative side, TMA autocrew fails to use DEMON or WAA. So, for initial contacts and contacts that are varying speed/course, the autocrew is more likely to be completely thrown. It has also been my impression that the delayed turning of the TA also seems to confuse the autocrew for a number of minutes.

There's no need for the autoTMA to use WAA or DEMON, since it chooses a solution "within a certain threshold." It will have range and speed long before it is geometrically possible.

Turning the TA takes a few minutes. The AutoTMA ignores the lines generated during the turn, as it should since they are useless.

Wim Libaers · 07-21-05, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaHuJa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wim Libaers

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaHuJa

I'd really like to see the "line wipe" function in the subs tma, though. Removing bogus lines would help a bit.[/i]

Is the function to select history time (right click on TMA plot) not useful for that?

Sure, if you're willing to lose the entire previous leg's worth of data - AND it is far enough back in time to remove it.

(Do you get which lines I'm talking about?)

Ah, I guess you want to remove individual lines that are wrong for some reason. I was thinking of removing lots of lines, for example after some radical manuevering by the target.

View Poll Results: Playing the subs, how do you hanlde the TMA?
I let it on auto	27	60.00%
I start out with auto and manually refine when needed	10	22.22%
I play full manual modus	8	17.78%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

07-19-05, 01:05 PM	#38
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	I am actually playing SC and SC/SCXIIc/SCU. However, I wish there was the following buttons available: TMA ALL AUTOCREW: ON/OFF TMA THIS AUTOCREW: ON/OFF Meaning it would be nice to be able leave autocrew handling non-critical contacts while you manually focused your TMA efforts on nearby threat like a sub. Thus, you could set a default mode for ALL and also select particular contacts for the autocrew to leave alone. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

07-19-05, 01:15 PM	#39
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	One question: The TMA autocrew cheats when it comes to towed arrays, right? I mean even with no other sensor contact or turns, the autocrew always manages to determine the actual from the false contact. On the negative side, TMA autocrew fails to use DEMON or WAA. So, for initial contacts and contacts that are varying speed/course, the autocrew is more likely to be completely thrown. It has also been my impression that the delayed turning of the TA also seems to confuse the autocrew for a number of minutes. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

07-17-05, 11:40 PM	#31
Nydrre Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 12 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	First of all I'ld like to say that Subguru's manuals helped me understand TMA better. The game manual left me confused on lead/ lag situations. The more you practice TMA the more you will pick up on how it works. You might be confused at first but practicing will let everything fall into place. Secondly I have just started to practice using TMA. So far I have rerun the Kilo demo mission, and combined with the manual programming of the torpedos came up with a better firing solution than I did with auto TMA. I used autocrew TMA at first, then went manual and came up with my own solution by locking in the speed from the DEMON display. TMA gives you much more insight to whats going on in a given situation. It is the accumulation of all your sensor data. Putting that sensor data together gives you better insight into whats happening on the nav map, and using TMA gives you a better insight into whats happening with your sensors. It also allows you to focus on the target you are after. If you want to instinctively know whats really going on you should at least know how TMA works. I think it is important to manually use all of the stations, but this can be hard to do especially in a fast moving situation. I look forward to playing MP where I can work the same platform as someone else. Soon I'll be looking for MP where TMA autocrew is not an option. I haven't voted yet, but most likely I will end up using TMA manually in conjunction with manual presetting of the weapons. TMA autocrew may be useful for an initial solution, but in the end I think its better to use your own. Using TMA also provides you with insight into tactics and how to manuever to get the most out of your sensors.

07-18-05, 08:09 AM	#32
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	Well said !

07-18-05, 01:23 PM	#34
Zerogreat Electrician's Mate Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Czech Republic, Prague, coordinates are sumthin like 50,10 North 14,25 East, not much accurate Posts: 132 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I use TMA on manual. It seems to me that when using it on auto, i am missing big part of the fun :hmm: Last time when i used auto TMA was in Jane's 688(I) Hunter/Killer

07-18-05, 01:28 PM	#35
SquidB Officer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Lytham UK Posts: 244 Downloads: 169 Uploads: 0	I seriously think that people should use Manual TMA in multiplayer. The Auto crew are just too good, and its a major part of the sim, I know it can get busy, but just priorities the contacts you need to. TMA can be terribly hard, but also rewarding when you do get it right.

07-18-05, 05:26 PM	#36
Nexus7 Commander Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 469 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	[quote="SquidB"] TMA can be terribly hard, but also rewarding when you do get it right. [/quote ] As said durind ASAT, TMA is an art. As such, you need to pracice it, in order to, maybe, master it... one day. When you master this art you're supposed to go a step up, or even two (OK, a few steps). To those that pretend to learn TMA in 30 minutes... that's plain overestimating yourselves... or your instructor... What do you do if the contact changes course and speed? Frequently? Assuming you have a single array contact ? Practice makes the master... but also a good instructor is necessary.

07-19-05, 01:22 AM	#37
PeriscopeDepth Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,894 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	In DW, I use auto TMA. But I'm curious about manual TMA. I do manual TMA when playing SHI, plotting from radar and the occasional periscope bearing only plot (though if it's close enough to see I normally don't bother with plotting, just visually estimate AOB and range. speed can be tricky though). It's a pretty simple process here, just plot bearing and range, account for ownship movement, and connect the dots and use simple math to get target speed after you measure his course. Then plot an intercept. I'm assuming you guys plot with pencil and paper in DW also? Or can you do everything from the TMA screen? If you do plot with paper and are going off of sonar bearings only, do you guys mathematically determine the range (I remember seeing formulas for this before, way back in the SC forum) or guestimate? Maybe I'll give manual TMA in DW a whirl.

07-19-05, 09:08 PM	#41
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	MarkShot wrote- ''Meaning it would be nice to be able leave autocrew handling non-critical contacts while you manually focused your TMA efforts on earby threat like a sub. Thus, you could set a default mode for ALL nd also select particular contacts for the autocrew to leave alone.'' Good suggestion - a great focus - worth putting forward to SA.