Alec Baldwin formally charged with Manslaughter in 'Rust’ shooting of Halyna Hutchins - Page 3

les green01 · 01-21-23, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

You are correct the trigger must be pulled to lower the hammer. Not meaning to get side tracked, a real or true replica 1873 Colt single action allows the hammer to be lowered and locked just before touching the primer. Back in the Wild West days when people may have loaded all six rounds it was considered the safe position. But it was soon found not to be very reliable, these days most if not all carry only five bullets and lower the hammer on an empty cylinder.

Anyone in their right mind with an ounce of common sense would not have tried to operate it if they didn’t know what the hell they were doing. My opinion of him would be different too if he admitted responsibility for his actions which lead to an accidental shooting. Instead he‘s going down the road of the anti-gun crowd of blaming the gun and everyone else. He’s just an arrogant S.O.B. trying to weasel his way out of it.

well said a buddy once ask me when we was targeting shooting one of my 1873's why i still was putting 5 instead of 6 i bassic told him don't want to get in the habit of putting 6 in.sob even talking about finishing the movie i love a western i know for sure i won't watch it

Commander Wallace · 01-22-23, 06:25 PM

I had made an error earlier in looking at this unfortunate shooting. I thought the weapon in question was a semi automatic handgun. It wasn't. It seems to be a single action revolver so the logic remains the same. The hammer would have to be intentionally cocked to fire a round. or a blow to the hammer with a round in the chamber aligned with the barrel in the cylinder while the weapon was pointed at Halyna Hutchins. It would be an incredible coincidence for all those things to happen in one place, all at the same time.

The F.B.I is supposed to have analyzed the gun used in the fatal shooting and found no anomalies with regards to malfunctions in the weapon. In short, It is impossible the weapon discharged itself as Baldwin has claimed. Further, as has been mentioned here, with advances in cinema productions, there is no reason at all to have real weapons that can fire real bullets let alone live ammunition on a movie set. Gunfire can be subbed in during production to replicate the sound of a gun going off.

It's incomprehensible that this level of stupidity or incompetence is present on a movie set.

It stands to reason, if Baldwin is lying and it seems he is, what is Baldwin trying to cover up ?

Platapus · 01-31-23, 04:26 PM

Formal charges of involuntary manslaughter have been levied against Baldwin and Reed today.

It does not appear that the actual indictment has been published to the public at this time

mapuc · 01-31-23, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Formal charges of involuntary manslaughter have been levied against Baldwin and Reed today.

It does not appear that the actual indictment has been published to the public at this time

I know how you classify murder in three different degrees like Murder in first degree.

Manslaughter what degree is that ? 2nd degree murder ?

I can't get the word right. I hope you understand my question nevertheless.

Markus

Platapus · 01-31-23, 06:01 PM

Great question.

When answering that question, as it pertains to the USA, it is important to properly identify the jurisdiction. Each state has their own legal definitions of murder and even though they may use the same name it can mean different things in different states. Also, our federal law may use different definitions from our state laws.

Since this took place in the state of New Mexico, we would consult NM Stat section 30-2-2 (2021) As an aside if you are researching crimes that occurred in the past, make sure you are researching the correct statute year too.

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-mex...ection-30-2-3/

This is the statute that covers Manslaughter.

" Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection."

Whoever commits involuntary manslaughter is guilty of a fourth degree felony.

It is also important to read the annotations of the law which discuss previous court decisions. These are used to clarify the meanings and interpretations of the elements of the crime, which can often seem ambiguous.

In the NM statutes there are a LOT of annotations. Some of the ones that may pertain to this case include

"Involuntary manslaughter statute excludes all cases of intentional killing, and includes only unintentional killings by acts unlawful, but not felonious, or lawful, but done in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and circumspection; the killing must be unintentional to constitute involuntary manslaughter, and, if it is intentional and not justifiable, it belongs in some one of the classes of unlawful homicide of a higher degree than involuntary manslaughter. State v. King, 1977-NMCA-042, 90 N.M. 377, 563 P.2d 1170, overruled on other grounds, State v. Reynolds, 1982-NMSC-091, 98 N.M. 527, 650 P.2d 811."

"Criminal negligence required for involuntary manslaughter by lawful act. — A killing by lawful act, to be involuntary manslaughter, depends on whether the lawful act was done in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection. The phrase "without due caution and circumspection" has been held to involve the concept of "criminal negligence," which concept includes conduct which is reckless, wanton or willful. State v. Grubbs, 1973-NMCA-096, 85 N.M. 365, 512 P.2d 693, overruled on other grounds, Santillanes v. State, 1993-NMSC-012, 115 N.M. 215, 849 P.2d 358; State v. Yarborough, 1995-NMCA-116, 120 N.M. 669, 905 P.2d 209."

"Negligent use of weapon. — A conviction of involuntary manslaughter by negligent use of a weapon requires negligence which is ordinary. State v. Grubbs, 1973-NMCA-096, 85 N.M. 365, 512 P.2d 693, overruled on other grounds, Santillanes v. State, 1993-NMSC-012, 115 N.M. 215, 849 P.2d 358; State v. Yarborough, 1995-NMCA-116, 120 N.M. 669, 905 P.2d 209."

Use of a weapon does not require proof of Criminal Negligence only "ordinary" negligence.

It gets complicated real fast.

I hope this helped. Please remember that different states will have different legal definitions. One really can't compare similar crimes across state lines.

mapuc · 01-31-23, 06:13 PM

Thank you Platapus.

I didn't know there was different laws on manslaughter depending on which state it is.

I know this much it wasn't murder of first degree.
Found this on google

Quote:

1st Degree – First degree manslaughter occurs when someone intends to injure someone severely. Instead of solely hurting them, the injuries cause death. 2nd Degree – Second degree manslaughter occurs when someone is acting recklessly and aware of their potentially fatal actions

Which mean he is accused of murder of 2nd degree.

Markus

Buddahaid · 01-31-23, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Thank you Platapus.

I didn't know there was different laws on manslaughter depending on which state it is.

I know this much it wasn't murder of first degree.
Found this on google

Which mean he is accused of murder of 2nd degree.

Markus

Manslaughter and murder are different types of crime.

Jimbuna · 02-01-23, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Manslaughter and murder are different types of crime.

Here in the UK it is the 'intent' that defines which one it is.

mapuc · 02-01-23, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Here in the UK it is the 'intent' that defines which one it is.

Same here in Denmark and Sweden

Markus

MaDef · 02-01-23, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Thank you Platapus.

I didn't know there was different laws on manslaughter depending on which state it is.

I know this much it wasn't murder of first degree.
Found this on google

Which mean he is accused of murder of 2nd degree.

Markus

Murder is the intentional killing of another, the "degree" of the act is largely dependent on circumstances surrounding the killing. (ie; reason, timing, planning etc.)
Manslaughter is the unintentional killing of another, again, the degree of manslaughter is dependent on the circumstances and manner of the killing.

Aktungbby · 02-01-23, 11:54 AM

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/r...ts-1235495663/

Quote:

On the evening of July 23, 1982, “Animal House” director John Landis was filming a tricky nighttime helicopter scene for “Twilight Zone: The Movie.” The wide-open spaces of Indian Dunes, now part of Santa Clarita, Calif., were standing in for Vietnam, and the scene called for soldiers in a helicopter to pursue actor Vic Morrow, who was carrying two children. When the copter made a turn just above a large mortar round, the special effect explosive detonated, bringing down the helicopter and killing Morrow along with 7-year-old Myca Dinh Le and 6-year-old Renee Shin-Yi Chen.

The devastating accident shook Hollywood, and several months later, Variety announced that “Landis, pilot, others face ‘Twilight’ accident charges.” Landis and other “Twilight Zone” movie crew members were charged with involuntary manslaughter — the same charges “Rust” actor and producer Alec Baldwin and “Midnight Rider” director Randall Miller faced for their roles in on-set deaths...Fast forward four decades, and the response to negligence on sets had changed when the film business was rocked by the death of camera assistant Sarah Jones in a 2014 train accident on the Georgia set of Gregg Allman biopic “Midnight Rider.” Director Miller pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter, marking the first time a director was sent to prison for an on-set accident. Jones’ death resulted in a massive outcry, fueled by social media and online journalism, and led to vigils across the country and the Safety for Sarah effort to advocate for better working conditions on sets.

Miller served just over a year in jail and was forbidden to direct during his probation, which runs until 2025.

Platapus · 02-01-23, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Which mean he is accused of murder of 2nd degree.

Markus

No, Baldwin and Reed are being charged with Involuntary Manslaughter. Murder in the second degree is a different crime. The circumstances in the movie set shooting do not meet the criteria of Second Degree Murder.

Rockstar · 02-02-23, 08:20 AM

I hear if he cooperates with the investigation he doesn’t have anything to worry about.

Jimbuna · 02-02-23, 08:29 AM

Why shouldn't he cooperate with the investigation, he was there holding the gun when it went off?

Aktungbby · 02-02-23, 11:45 AM

R U referring to "the smoking gun"?

01-31-23, 04:26 PM	#33
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,375 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Formal charges of involuntary manslaughter have been levied against Baldwin and Reed today. It does not appear that the actual indictment has been published to the public at this time __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

01-31-23, 06:01 PM	#35
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,375 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Great question. When answering that question, as it pertains to the USA, it is important to properly identify the jurisdiction. Each state has their own legal definitions of murder and even though they may use the same name it can mean different things in different states. Also, our federal law may use different definitions from our state laws. Since this took place in the state of New Mexico, we would consult NM Stat section 30-2-2 (2021) As an aside if you are researching crimes that occurred in the past, make sure you are researching the correct statute year too. https://law.justia.com/codes/new-mex...ection-30-2-3/ This is the statute that covers Manslaughter. " Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection." Whoever commits involuntary manslaughter is guilty of a fourth degree felony. It is also important to read the annotations of the law which discuss previous court decisions. These are used to clarify the meanings and interpretations of the elements of the crime, which can often seem ambiguous. In the NM statutes there are a LOT of annotations. Some of the ones that may pertain to this case include "Involuntary manslaughter statute excludes all cases of intentional killing, and includes only unintentional killings by acts unlawful, but not felonious, or lawful, but done in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and circumspection; the killing must be unintentional to constitute involuntary manslaughter, and, if it is intentional and not justifiable, it belongs in some one of the classes of unlawful homicide of a higher degree than involuntary manslaughter. State v. King, 1977-NMCA-042, 90 N.M. 377, 563 P.2d 1170, overruled on other grounds, State v. Reynolds, 1982-NMSC-091, 98 N.M. 527, 650 P.2d 811." "Criminal negligence required for involuntary manslaughter by lawful act. — A killing by lawful act, to be involuntary manslaughter, depends on whether the lawful act was done in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection. The phrase "without due caution and circumspection" has been held to involve the concept of "criminal negligence," which concept includes conduct which is reckless, wanton or willful. State v. Grubbs, 1973-NMCA-096, 85 N.M. 365, 512 P.2d 693, overruled on other grounds, Santillanes v. State, 1993-NMSC-012, 115 N.M. 215, 849 P.2d 358; State v. Yarborough, 1995-NMCA-116, 120 N.M. 669, 905 P.2d 209." "Negligent use of weapon. — A conviction of involuntary manslaughter by negligent use of a weapon requires negligence which is ordinary. State v. Grubbs, 1973-NMCA-096, 85 N.M. 365, 512 P.2d 693, overruled on other grounds, Santillanes v. State, 1993-NMSC-012, 115 N.M. 215, 849 P.2d 358; State v. Yarborough, 1995-NMCA-116, 120 N.M. 669, 905 P.2d 209." Use of a weapon does not require proof of Criminal Negligence only "ordinary" negligence. It gets complicated real fast. I hope this helped. Please remember that different states will have different legal definitions. One really can't compare similar crimes across state lines. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

02-02-23, 08:29 AM	#44
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,590 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Why shouldn't he cooperate with the investigation, he was there holding the gun when it went off? __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

02-02-23, 11:45 AM	#45
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 30,023 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	R U referring to "the smoking gun"? __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!!

01-22-23, 06:25 PM	#32
Commander Wallace Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Under the sea in an Octupus garden in the shade Posts: 5,304 Downloads: 366 Uploads: 0	I had made an error earlier in looking at this unfortunate shooting. I thought the weapon in question was a semi automatic handgun. It wasn't. It seems to be a single action revolver so the logic remains the same. The hammer would have to be intentionally cocked to fire a round. or a blow to the hammer with a round in the chamber aligned with the barrel in the cylinder while the weapon was pointed at Halyna Hutchins. It would be an incredible coincidence for all those things to happen in one place, all at the same time. The F.B.I is supposed to have analyzed the gun used in the fatal shooting and found no anomalies with regards to malfunctions in the weapon. In short, It is impossible the weapon discharged itself as Baldwin has claimed. Further, as has been mentioned here, with advances in cinema productions, there is no reason at all to have real weapons that can fire real bullets let alone live ammunition on a movie set. Gunfire can be subbed in during production to replicate the sound of a gun going off. It's incomprehensible that this level of stupidity or incompetence is present on a movie set. It stands to reason, if Baldwin is lying and it seems he is, what is Baldwin trying to cover up ?

02-02-23, 08:20 AM	#43
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I hear if he cooperates with the investigation he doesn’t have anything to worry about.