Germanwings Airbus Crashed in France - Page 3

Rockstar · 03-25-15, 07:49 PM

• Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr told reporters the company was struggling to understand how an airplane that “was in perfect technical condition” with two experienced pilots “was involved in such a terrible accident.” The crash of Germanwings Flight 9525 in the French Alps, he said, “represents the darkest hours in the 60-year history of our Lufthansa Group.”

Im still of the opinion this was a deliberate act. Simply because statistcally speaking they were in the safest portion of the flight when it went down.

GoldenRivet · 03-25-15, 08:31 PM

Lufthansa indicates that it has no information to indicate one pilot was locked out of the cockpit

Oberon · 03-25-15, 08:52 PM

It could well be a case of Chinese whispers, it wouldn't be the first time.

d@rk51d3 · 03-25-15, 09:03 PM

This is the media we're dealing with, after all.

HunterICX · 03-26-15, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d@rk51d3

This is the media we're dealing with, after all.

Aye, speculations, speculations.....I just would wait till the report of the investigation comes out.
All this media ''noise'' isn't really helping to focus on the facts they already gathered and shared.

Oberon · 03-26-15, 07:07 AM

French investigators have gone for the co-pilot deliberately crashing the aircraft:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32063587

Whether it was suicide or terrorism is yet to be determined.
The co-pilots name has been released as Andreas Lubitz.
Now the witch-hunt shall commence, his family is not going to have a day of rest for months.

Jimbuna · 03-26-15, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

French investigators have gone for the co-pilot deliberately crashing the aircraft:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32063587

Whether it was suicide or terrorism is yet to be determined.
The co-pilots name has been released as Andreas Lubitz.
Now the witch-hunt shall commence, his family is not going to have a day of rest for months.

Whatever the reason this is a most worrying dynamic, the only plus (if you can excuse the term) is that it looks like the plane was not at fault mechanically etc. but that will be of zero comfort to those who have lost their loved ones.

Rockstar · 03-26-15, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

French investigators have gone for the co-pilot deliberately crashing the aircraft:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32063587

Whether it was suicide or terrorism is yet to be determined.
The co-pilots name has been released as Andreas Lubitz.
Now the witch-hunt shall commence, his family is not going to have a day of rest for months.

Could be a passenger was the targeted for assassination as well. Only the Shadow knows.

Schroeder · 03-26-15, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

French investigators have gone for the co-pilot deliberately crashing the aircraft:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32063587

Whether it was suicide or terrorism is yet to be determined.
The co-pilots name has been released as Andreas Lubitz.
Now the witch-hunt shall commence, his family is not going to have a day of rest for months.

If that's true then I'm lost for words.

Oberon · 03-26-15, 08:19 AM

It could be one of four things really.

1) Terrorism - Not particularly likely as these sort of people tend to leave statements to be picked up after the incident, be it on a website or through mail or some such.
2) Murder/Suicide - The most likely, sadly, and it's not easy to find the evidence and reasoning for it. His life and communications are going to be poured over with a fine tooth comb, his family are going to face weeks, if not months of questioning from both authorities and the media.
3) Health issue - The second most likely, although it does not explain the locking himself into the cockpit. In regards to what kind of health issue would cause such a thing, I refer again to the Moorgate crash.
4) A combination of number 3 and an accidental locking of the door - Very unlikely, I don't know how cockpit doors work, whether it's possible to lock yourself out of the cockpit, I doubt it but if the pilot accidentally locked himself out and the co-pilot had a health problem then that could feasibly lead to a crash. However, it would have to be a combination of the two, and very unlikely.

Sadly, it does look very much like a murder/suicide, and there are no words that won't result in an infraction to describe the type of...thing...that would kill 149 innocent people just to end its own life.

GoldenRivet · 03-26-15, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

It could be one of four things really.

2) Murder/Suicide - The most likely, sadly, and it's not easy to find the evidence and reasoning for it. His life and communications are going to be poured over with a fine tooth comb, his family are going to face weeks, if not months of questioning from both authorities and the media.

Sadly, it does look very much like a murder/suicide, and there are no words that won't result in an infraction to describe the type of...thing...that would kill 149 innocent people just to end its own life.

I have a hard time with the suicide thing. Having flown with a multitude of professional pilots i know the personality type as being more or less naturally positive, can-do, overcome adversity types of people.

and that's true, it would be a completely senseless thing to commit suicide in this way taking all those people who have nothing to do with your problem down with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

4) A combination of number 3 and an accidental locking of the door - Very unlikely, I don't know how cockpit doors work, whether it's possible to lock yourself out of the cockpit, I doubt it but if the pilot accidentally locked himself out and the co-pilot had a health problem then that could feasibly lead to a crash. However, it would have to be a combination of the two, and very unlikely.

as for locking the door

the simplest of airline cockpit doors have a latch that must be actuated from the inside which - while possible to operate with one hand - generally requires use of both hands unless you are practiced at the art.

a small horizontal mechanism must be lifted while a second small vertical mechanism is pulled to the side thereby retracting a simple deadbolt for so long as these small latches are held in place. release them and the bolt engages. this mechanism cannot be operated from outside the door, the deadbolt is always out, unless the mechanisms are operated to retract it so that one can close the door.

when i flew airline trips, and one of us had to take a leak, it was mandatory that a flight attendant had to join us in the cockpit to preclude the possibility of the pilot remaining at the controls passing out, having a heart attack, or whatever - there would at least be a second set of hands to let the other pilot back in.

I have read in various articles that European operators do not require this policy of having a flight attendant enter the cockpit while the other pilot vacates it.

other aircraft have different door types. some require a pin code, but the pilot remaining within the cockpit can deny the pin code thereby locking others out - this is to serve as a measure against terrorists coercing the pin code out of a crew member and subsequently using it to gain entry.

I have heard of some doors requiring a key, but i have not personally seen these types.

Of interest to the investigation is the first officer who supposedly remained behind while the captain departed the cockpit. current reports indicate that his facebook account was deactivated/deleted within the past 2 days. it is not clear at the moment whether he deleted the page prior to the flight, or, if in the interest of privacy a family member deleted the account after the accident.

I have hit some low points in my life - but i cannot imagine a pilot driving his aircraft into the ground and selfishly taking all those people down with him. Its unreal.

when i was hired into the airline business we had to undergo psychological evaluation to get the final go ahead for hiring. while it was probably a good indicator of my psychological condition at the time of the interview / hiring process... the evaluation was never repeated. and psychological condition changes over time - sometimes over a short period of time - depending on what factors are at play in an individuals life.

eddie · 03-26-15, 10:28 AM

Same reports about the co-pilot being heard here in the States too. Locked the pilot out and wouldn't let him back in. Pushed some kind of button that started the plane to descend. Pilot kept knocking and asking the copilot to open the door, but got very curt responses of "No!" I was just saddened to read this-

"Robin said just before the plane hit the mountain, the sounds of passengers screaming could be heard on the audio.
"I think the victims realized just at the last moment," he said."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/...ane/ar-AAa1d9O

GoldenRivet · 03-26-15, 10:43 AM

If it were a suicide - as it now appears likely - this is in line with a "high profile suicide" as i dont know what its official term is.

low profile suicides tend to be private affairs that take place in the back bedroom with a pistol to the head, or by poisoning or hanging one's self. the intent is to end either real or perceived suffering or intense depression leading to this very private act in which the individual committing suicide may not even be reported missing for some days

a high profile suicide on the other hand is a very public affair generally done to ensure that a particular person or group of people takes notice of it - or that it is done in such a way that it will be nearly impossible for a particular person or group of people not to notice it. ie killing yourself on national television, or in front of the person or group of people that hurt or wronged you. or in this case... driving a plane into a mountain.

was his lover aboard? and it was a murder suicide?

or did he kill himself in this high profile way - knowing that news of his act would inevitably reach whoever he felt had wronged him?

Betonov · 03-26-15, 10:51 AM

Insurance ??

I remember watching air crash investigaton a few years ago when another pilot insured his family in case of his death and then crashed the plane.

03-26-15, 11:52 AM

Watching a German press conference at the moment and they indeed claim that the co-pilot crashed the plane on purpose.

The whole event was shocking enough, but this really adds to it.
Makes me think about what I said about the MH flight as well... I ruled suicide out since most suicidal people simply want to hurt/kill themselves, so rarely others.

My God, how desperate must one have to be to do this.

03-25-15, 08:31 PM	#32
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Lufthansa indicates that it has no information to indicate one pilot was locked out of the cockpit __________________

03-26-15, 10:28 AM	#42
eddie Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,023 Downloads: 99 Uploads: 0	Same reports about the co-pilot being heard here in the States too. Locked the pilot out and wouldn't let him back in. Pushed some kind of button that started the plane to descend. Pilot kept knocking and asking the copilot to open the door, but got very curt responses of "No!" I was just saddened to read this- "Robin said just before the plane hit the mountain, the sounds of passengers screaming could be heard on the audio. "I think the victims realized just at the last moment," he said." http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/...ane/ar-AAa1d9O __________________ Don't mistake my kindness for weakness. I'm kind to everyone, but when someone is unkind to me, weak is not what you are going to remember about me. Al Capone

03-26-15, 10:43 AM	#43
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	If it were a suicide - as it now appears likely - this is in line with a "high profile suicide" as i dont know what its official term is. low profile suicides tend to be private affairs that take place in the back bedroom with a pistol to the head, or by poisoning or hanging one's self. the intent is to end either real or perceived suffering or intense depression leading to this very private act in which the individual committing suicide may not even be reported missing for some days a high profile suicide on the other hand is a very public affair generally done to ensure that a particular person or group of people takes notice of it - or that it is done in such a way that it will be nearly impossible for a particular person or group of people not to notice it. ie killing yourself on national television, or in front of the person or group of people that hurt or wronged you. or in this case... driving a plane into a mountain. was his lover aboard? and it was a murder suicide? or did he kill himself in this high profile way - knowing that news of his act would inevitably reach whoever he felt had wronged him? __________________

03-25-15, 07:49 PM	#31
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	• Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr told reporters the company was struggling to understand how an airplane that “was in perfect technical condition” with two experienced pilots “was involved in such a terrible accident.” The crash of Germanwings Flight 9525 in the French Alps, he said, “represents the darkest hours in the 60-year history of our Lufthansa Group.” Im still of the opinion this was a deliberate act. Simply because statistcally speaking they were in the safest portion of the flight when it went down.

03-25-15, 08:52 PM	#33
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	It could well be a case of Chinese whispers, it wouldn't be the first time.

03-25-15, 09:03 PM	#34
d@rk51d3 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 1,951 Downloads: 207 Uploads: 0	This is the media we're dealing with, after all.

03-26-15, 07:07 AM	#36
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	French investigators have gone for the co-pilot deliberately crashing the aircraft: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32063587 Whether it was suicide or terrorism is yet to be determined. The co-pilots name has been released as Andreas Lubitz. Now the witch-hunt shall commence, his family is not going to have a day of rest for months.

03-26-15, 08:19 AM	#40
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	It could be one of four things really. 1) Terrorism - Not particularly likely as these sort of people tend to leave statements to be picked up after the incident, be it on a website or through mail or some such. 2) Murder/Suicide - The most likely, sadly, and it's not easy to find the evidence and reasoning for it. His life and communications are going to be poured over with a fine tooth comb, his family are going to face weeks, if not months of questioning from both authorities and the media. 3) Health issue - The second most likely, although it does not explain the locking himself into the cockpit. In regards to what kind of health issue would cause such a thing, I refer again to the Moorgate crash. 4) A combination of number 3 and an accidental locking of the door - Very unlikely, I don't know how cockpit doors work, whether it's possible to lock yourself out of the cockpit, I doubt it but if the pilot accidentally locked himself out and the co-pilot had a health problem then that could feasibly lead to a crash. However, it would have to be a combination of the two, and very unlikely. Sadly, it does look very much like a murder/suicide, and there are no words that won't result in an infraction to describe the type of...thing...that would kill 149 innocent people just to end its own life.

03-26-15, 10:51 AM	#44
Betonov Navy Seal Join Date: May 2009 Location: Slovenia Posts: 8,647 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Insurance ?? I remember watching air crash investigaton a few years ago when another pilot insured his family in case of his death and then crashed the plane.

03-26-15, 11:52 AM	#45
Nippelspanner Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Watching a German press conference at the moment and they indeed claim that the co-pilot crashed the plane on purpose. The whole event was shocking enough, but this really adds to it. Makes me think about what I said about the MH flight as well... I ruled suicide out since most suicidal people simply want to hurt/kill themselves, so rarely others. My God, how desperate must one have to be to do this.