can't get rid of destroyers

[LGN1]

I doubt this mod works in SH3 at all. I have done many tests with it and could not see any difference in the escorts' behavior at all.

In additions, no one could give me an example where I can see that it works. Even in TDW's proposal I could not see any difference.

I wish I was wrong because I tried many times to model such a disturbance, but until I see proof that it works, I don't believe it (no matter who made the mod, I trust in tests not in names).

Regards, LGN1

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by LGN1

I doubt this mod works in SH3 at all. I have done many tests with it and could not see any difference in the escorts' behavior at all.

In additions, no one could give me an example where I can see that it works. Even in TDW's proposal I could not see any difference.

I wish I was wrong because I tried many times to model such a disturbance, but until I see proof that it works, I don't believe it (no matter who made the mod, I trust in tests not in names).

Regards, LGN1

LGN1, I never said that it worked. All I said was that, based on posted reports, a lot of people use it without experiencing CTDs. It does CTD my installation, so I don't use it and have never tested its performance. You have tried it and see no change in escort behavior - that's useful information.

[Dronston]

I understood that the parameters of the mod can be changed, duration, affected area and so on. A good test would be to exaggerate those settings to test if it works or not.

[sublynx]

I had a look to TDW's mod. From what little I understood, I'm guessing TDW was able to make this mod by simulating the disturbances caused by the explosions by using the game engine's BOLD canisters. If my guess is correct, the "water disturbances" are in effect automatically released BOLD canisters, somehow linked to the depth charging.

If it is like this, it's a really clever way of bending the game engine to do (or rather fake) something what TDW wanted it do.

The crude solution to the fact that the mod causes CTD's, or doesn't seem to work at all would be to cheat:

1. modify the game in a way that gives you BOLD canisters from the start of the war
2. give yourself an unrestricted amount of BOLD canisters
3. modify the BOLD canisters in a way that you think is the correct delay in the enemy hearing you after an explosion
4. have the self-discipline to only use them during explosions - when there's an explosion you have the right to release a BOLD canister

It's a really ugly solution, but I think this should be doable, even with next to no modding experience.

Many problems here, one being the effectiveness of the game engine's BOLD canisters. From what I remember from the one time I survived until 1944 GWX, the BOLD canisters didn't seem to help at all. I'm pretty certain they were very effective when they first appeared, though.

Another problem is the linking of BOLD canisters to explosions. The dual task would cause problems when the BOLD canisters are introduced. The values used to simulate explosion disturbances might not be very sensible to simulate BOLD canister releases.

Another thing came to my mind. Would it be possible to link flank speed key to the releasing of a BOLD canister? Perhaps with SetKeys? With h.sie's engine failure settings I rarely use flank speed, except to avoid imminent depth charging. A more experienced modder might be able to connect flank speed + BOLD together, and then give the option of putting the connection on and off. Like h.sie's mod with its ability to switch time compression limit on and off to enable one to cruise at a bigger time compression even if there are other ships closeby.

Sorry if I'm ranting and unclear, but the possibility of perhaps being able to play with the explosion disturbances simulated is just so exciting

[LGN1]

Originally Posted by Dronston

I understood that the parameters of the mod can be changed, duration, affected area and so on. A good test would be to exaggerate those settings to test if it works or not.

That's exactly what TDW proposed and what I did in one of my tests. Result: No difference observed. You can read the original thread and see some tests I did.

Originally Posted by sublynx

I had a look to TDW's mod. From what little I understood, I'm guessing TDW was able to make this mod by simulating the disturbances caused by the explosions by using the game engine's BOLD canisters. If my guess is correct, the "water disturbances" are in effect automatically released BOLD canisters, somehow linked to the depth charging.

....

The crude solution to the fact that the mod causes CTD's, or doesn't seem to work at all would be to cheat:

1. modify the game in a way that gives you BOLD canisters from the start of the war
2. give yourself an unrestricted amount of BOLD canisters
3. modify the BOLD canisters in a way that you think is the correct delay in the enemy hearing you after an explosion
4. have the self-discipline to only use them during explosions - when there's an explosion you have the right to release a BOLD canister

That's correct how it works. The problem is that somehow the bold is treated differently from the game than a bold released by the player (see my tests).

I also had the same idea with releasing the bold by yourself. However, the main problem is that the bold in this case is released next to you! So, imaging you are 1000m away from the hunting escorts who might or might not have lost contact with you. Now they throw DCs 1000m away. Will you release a bold that acts as a sound source and might attract the escorts again to your position?

I would really love to see a mod that simulates DC disturbances. That's why I have already spent much time on finding a way to do it, but nothing has worked yet. I hope someone else might find a solution...

Regards, LGN1

PS: Another issue I would like to solve is the 'non-reaction' of ships to a dud torpedo. In SH3 a dud torpedo explodes next to an escort and nothing happens. It's just ignored...

I tried to solve this by spawning a dummy DC with a huge explosion radius and little damage HP from the dud explosion. In fact, this worked, ships got damaged, but unfortunately didn't react. My theory is that the resulting damage was not considered as coming from 'the enemy' by the game engine (like damage from waves, friendly fire,...) and, thus, no action was taken

[sublynx]

oh damn. The distance was something I did not think about...

[Jeff-Groves]

Part of the CTD issues can be resolved by renaming the dat and a part inside the dat.

[Downunderjock]

To Dronston and all.

If the Leap Frogging idea, I posted the other day. Was not in the spirit of Submariners, as to avoiding Destroyers, etc.

Or as in the real world, at the time. during WW2 (or WW1.)

As they possibly never did that, for good reasons. And I am aware, of a few. By all means Keel Haul me. And feed me to the sharks.

I just couldn't get over the fact, that it at first, happened to me by accident. Which I didn't expect, too be honest.

I was expecting, instant sinking to the depths, below. Instead, when I got little or no damage, from time to time. It was the destroyers who suffered.

As in some cases, it wreaked their Rudders, or because both my Sub and the DD, was doing Full Steam Ahead, etc.

It ripped out their Propellers, or damaged the hull around the Bow, or both. Which, I either had instant explosion, or them sinking, in some cases.

Or, they limped way, slowly or at speed, with a bent or no rudder or missing Props.

And them, for some slowly sank.

Anyway, like I mentioned, if this is not how it might have happened, in the real world, at the time, pardon for that, to you all.

Take care.

See Ya.

[Vince82]

Originally Posted by Dronston

Patrol 8, january '41. On my way back to Lorient and I'm at the south entrance of the Irish Sea when I stumble upon a large convoy. I have two eels left in the bow and two in the stern so I decide to try and sink the biggest ship in the convoy which happened to be a British tanker. I had to get within 4 km because I only had electric eels. I release the torpedoes and immediately dive to 90 meters (max depth in this area) and switch to silent running. In the same time I return to my Lorient course. With 50 rpm I hope to sneak away but soon I hear the ominous ping of a destroyer and the depth bombing begins. The destroyer asks 2 others for help and now they take turns trying to blast me out the water.

They have been chasing me for over 3 and a half hours now! So far I only sustained minor damage. They don't seem to run out of depth charges and they don't give up. I am used that at some point they will return to the convoy but that must be over 30 km's away now. I am getting close to 50% of my batteries.

My tactic to avoid depth charges is to go at 1 knot and when my hydrophone oprator informs me of charges in the water I go to full speed.
All 3 boats seem to have sonar so I can't sneak away. In the end I will have to surface. For the moment I am going the opposite direction of the convoy in the hope the destroyers will soon return to them.

I am considering to go to periscope depth and try to take out 2 destroyers with my aft torpedoes but I know this means almost certain death and will in the best scenario still leave one destroyer.
Any tips to get out of my situation?

I wonder if it wouldn't have been better to let the convoy go, because it's 90m and you have just four torpedoes left. Maybe it's better to just find a single undefend ship and fire two torpedoes and than go to Lorient for resupply?

[Dronston]

Originally Posted by Vince82

I wonder if it wouldn't have been better to let the convoy go, because it's 90m and you have just four torpedoes left. Maybe it's better to just find a single undefend ship and fire two torpedoes and than go to Lorient for resupply?

Yeah, that would have been the wiser decision. But considering it is only just '41 I thought I could get away with it (which in the end I did even though I thought me and my crew were toast). And someone told me to "be more aggressive". But you can be sure after this I will only risk such an attack in deeper waters or simply return home with my handful of eels, especially when the counter measures will only get better as the war progresses.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Dronston

Yeah, that would have been the wiser . But you can be sure after this I will only risk such an attack in deeper waters or simply return home with my handful of eels, especially when the counter measures will only get better as the war progresses.

and in shallow water to boot.

WELL GRASSHOPPER...something 'sank in' ...besides your expensive U-boat! Halsschmerzen — "sore throat" or "itchy neck;" was the term used to describe a reckless or glory-seeking commander, implying an obsession with winning the Knight's Cross. Try not to let what is 'hanging (hopefully) around your neck' interfere with what is 'between your ears'.

[BigWalleye]

As has been said: "There are old Kaleuns. And there are bold Kaleuns. But there are NO old AND bold Kaleuns."

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by sublynx

somehow linked to the depth charging.

It's linked through the particals. Follow the Id's.

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Try not to let what is 'hanging (hopefully) around your neck' interfere with what is 'between your ears'.

A very good example is Franz Stigler.
One kill away from the Knight's Cross, he followed what was 'between his ears'.

[LGN1]

Has anyone else done some more tests to figure out whether the mod works as intended?

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Part of the CTD issues can be resolved by renaming the dat and a part inside the dat.

Just for curiosity, Jeff, are there any 'name conventions' in SH3?

Regards, LGN1