Everything wrong with The Hunt for Red October - Page 3

Red October1984 · 02-04-14, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soopaman2

I know, I am a bad boy, and this is required reading for subsimmers.

I am ashamed

You have time to redeem yourself...

Father Goose · 02-04-14, 11:22 PM

When I first read the title of this thread I thought it said, "Everything wrong with Red October".
You got a break Red!

Kapitan_Phillips · 02-04-14, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Lady Sarah "Lalla" Ward.

Ahhh Romana...

Terrax · 02-05-14, 08:18 AM

The thing that always stuck out to me what the Tu-142 attack on the RO. As I recall, the bomber-converted-ASW aircraft carried around a dozen or so light weight torpedoes. In the movie they dropped a single light torp on the RO. The Typhoons were built to be very hard to sink & I think the single light torp would have had little to no chance of sinking her. When the TU-142 found the RO, they would have dropped everything they had.

In reality, if the Russians were hunting a rouge sub, they would have flooded the Atlantic with 142's & Il-38 Mays searching for it. Had the 142 detected the RO, it would have stayed on station (fuel permitting) after dropping it's ordnance & every ASW asset in range would have been vectored there, with a decent chance of sinking her (or him, as I think the Russian ships are refereed to).

But hey, it's just a movie, one that I really enjoyed. I think it was the writer or director of Braveheart that said "Never let history get in the way of telling a good story."

Platapus · 02-05-14, 04:55 PM

But at the time, the RO was maneuvering through a complex set of canyons. Would dropping multiple torpedoes in such a confined space have a chance of interfering with each other?

Terrax · 02-07-14, 09:25 AM

True, but that would also limit a sub's maneuvering room. I have no real life ASW experience, but I'll give my opinion based on what I've read on ASW tactics. I'll stick to how a real world scenario of a defecting sub hunt would play out in my head.

Let's say the 142 dropped 12 light torps on a defecting Typhoon that was making his way through an underwater canyon system. Factoring in noisemakers from the Typhoon, underwater topography & Russian torpedo performance, I'll say 4 of the 12 hit the Typhoon. I don't think that would be enough to sink it, but the damage from increased flow noise & damaged internals could make it easier to detect.

As for the Typhoon, it's large size would make it easier for the active sonars on the torps to track. Going with the classic evasion tactic of noise makers, knuckles in the water & increasing speed to flank to evade torpedoes in a tight underwater canyon system would be... a tad bit reckless.

Again, I don't think the Typhoon would be sank in the attack, but it just may slow him down enough/easier to detect for other ASW assets to arrive & continue the attack. Of course, if there was an actual situation where a boomer was trying to defect to the US during the Cold War, the pilots would probably be told if they came back before the sub was sank, something... unfortunate would happen to their families.

As you can see, after seeing the movie, I had way too much time during my commutes to work to think about this. It feel good to finally get that off my chest. My wife could never sit through the whole presentation.

02-05-14, 08:18 AM	#34
Terrax Warmonger Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: WV USA Posts: 101 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The thing that always stuck out to me what the Tu-142 attack on the RO. As I recall, the bomber-converted-ASW aircraft carried around a dozen or so light weight torpedoes. In the movie they dropped a single light torp on the RO. The Typhoons were built to be very hard to sink & I think the single light torp would have had little to no chance of sinking her. When the TU-142 found the RO, they would have dropped everything they had. In reality, if the Russians were hunting a rouge sub, they would have flooded the Atlantic with 142's & Il-38 Mays searching for it. Had the 142 detected the RO, it would have stayed on station (fuel permitting) after dropping it's ordnance & every ASW asset in range would have been vectored there, with a decent chance of sinking her (or him, as I think the Russian ships are refereed to). But hey, it's just a movie, one that I really enjoyed. I think it was the writer or director of Braveheart that said "Never let history get in the way of telling a good story." __________________

02-05-14, 04:55 PM	#35
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,369 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	But at the time, the RO was maneuvering through a complex set of canyons. Would dropping multiple torpedoes in such a confined space have a chance of interfering with each other? __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

02-07-14, 09:25 AM	#36
Terrax Warmonger Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: WV USA Posts: 101 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	True, but that would also limit a sub's maneuvering room. I have no real life ASW experience, but I'll give my opinion based on what I've read on ASW tactics. I'll stick to how a real world scenario of a defecting sub hunt would play out in my head. Let's say the 142 dropped 12 light torps on a defecting Typhoon that was making his way through an underwater canyon system. Factoring in noisemakers from the Typhoon, underwater topography & Russian torpedo performance, I'll say 4 of the 12 hit the Typhoon. I don't think that would be enough to sink it, but the damage from increased flow noise & damaged internals could make it easier to detect. As for the Typhoon, it's large size would make it easier for the active sonars on the torps to track. Going with the classic evasion tactic of noise makers, knuckles in the water & increasing speed to flank to evade torpedoes in a tight underwater canyon system would be... a tad bit reckless. Again, I don't think the Typhoon would be sank in the attack, but it just may slow him down enough/easier to detect for other ASW assets to arrive & continue the attack. Of course, if there was an actual situation where a boomer was trying to defect to the US during the Cold War, the pilots would probably be told if they came back before the sub was sank, something... unfortunate would happen to their families. As you can see, after seeing the movie, I had way too much time during my commutes to work to think about this. It feel good to finally get that off my chest. My wife could never sit through the whole presentation. __________________

02-04-14, 11:22 PM	#32
Father Goose Sonar Guy Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Matalava Island Posts: 378 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	When I first read the title of this thread I thought it said, "Everything wrong with Red October". You got a break Red!