Bloodbath in Egypt

eddie · 08-15-13, 12:48 PM

Over 500 dead so far. Wasn't this the reason they threw out Morsi?

http://news.msn.com/world/after-hund...ew-uncertainty

Jimbuna · 08-15-13, 01:15 PM

This could well end up turning into a civil war.

kranz · 08-15-13, 01:28 PM

When they put Mubarak into prison my grandfather said that some nations have to be kept on a very short leash. If not, everything falls.
Well, seems like he was right.

CaptainHaplo · 08-15-13, 01:44 PM

So basically a whole bunch of Muslim Brotherhood members, supporters and associated family have been killed. A few others, but the vast majority being the above - folks who press for the repression of women, Shariah law and the execution of anyone who does not follow their Islamic creed.

My tears of sorrow are insufficient to even fill a thimble.

Oberon · 08-15-13, 01:58 PM

Anti-Muslim sentiments on the third post.

Stay classy GT.

Religion or no religion, the situation in Egypt is spiralling out of control, and with a vast portion of the worlds trade going through the Suez and the possibility of this creating a ripple effect as a sort of anti-Arab Spring, it's a situation that's got a lot of people quite concerned, and rightfully so. This is quite possibly the most important event to happen to Egypt since, well, at the very least the Yom Kippur war, but I'd go back even further to the Second World War, or beyond.

BossMark · 08-15-13, 02:02 PM

Me thinks this going to turn into a full scale civil war, but hopes to god I am wrong.

Skybird · 08-15-13, 02:09 PM

Oberon, the Arab Anti-Spring already started long before. Wherever, the Spring broke out, it ended with the fundamentalists claiming power and starting to erode the democratic principles that brought them there to establish a Shariah-based regime. They try it in Tunisia. In Libya. In Syria. In Egypt. Egypt is not the beginning of that Anti-Spring. It's just the latest spring-breaker turning into winter. Without the fundamentalists abusing their power over the past year, the military would not be on the streets today.

A fundamentalist regime is no expression of a functional democracy - it is the end of democracy. Fundamentalism, and democracy and humanism cannot go together. They are mutually exclusive.

CaptainHaplo · 08-15-13, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Anti-Muslim sentiments on the third post.

Oberon - there is a distinct difference between anti-Muslim sentiments and anti-extremist sentiments. As a Christian, I understand that not all Muslims are extremists. While their religion says they should be, not all are. Many are in fact, moderate. Just like I am a "moderate" Christian, since I don't believe we should go around stoning or otherwise executing gay people. There are extremists in every religion - but Islam has more than "its fair share". Just as I would speak out against a Christian extremist (like the morons who kill doctors because they do abortions) - I will speak out against Muslim extremists who would kill you and I because we were not followers of their religion.

Call that a lack of class if you like. People like that give up their status as humans when they feel a requirement to murder innocents - in my book at least. I'd say choosing to commit murder and terrorism in the name of getting laid by a bunch of virgins in the afterlife is a little "less classy".

Skybird · 08-15-13, 01:57 PM

From the moment on when the West helped the fundamentalists into power, none of the events, by their sequence , really came as a surprise. Not the attempt by the religious to abuse democracy to install a fundamentalist state, not the military stepping onto the scene, and not the pogroms the MB now runs against the Coptian Christians (once again).

There are worse scenarios for Egypt than a military ruling.

From an American, European and Israeli perspective, anything is better than a fundamentalist regime establishing its power in Egypt. I strongly recommend to learn - finally learn! - from the examples set by Turkey, Tunisia, Libya and Syria. We should only consider our options for influencing if the fundamentalists come back to power. Unfortunately, Europeans so far act exactly by the opposite, and Obama is manouvering.

What is needed again, is a relatively stable Egypt that keeps the religious in check. Like Mubarak did. I know the military is corrupted in itself to quite some degree. But that is the far lesser evil. Ideological and idealistic maximum demands will not help the situation. What is needed from a Western POV is Realpolitik and a healthy amount of remembering our own and Israel's interests.

Beyond that, this is an issue the Egyptians have to deal with and to solve - it is their conflict, so let them run the show. Let them do it, and let us stay out as long as not our vital own interests are affected. In solutions bringing the fundamentalists into power we shall not have the smallest interest.

08-15-13, 12:48 PM	#1
eddie Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,023 Downloads: 99 Uploads: 0	Bloodbath in Egypt Over 500 dead so far. Wasn't this the reason they threw out Morsi? http://news.msn.com/world/after-hund...ew-uncertainty

08-15-13, 01:15 PM	#2
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,447 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	This could well end up turning into a civil war. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

08-15-13, 01:44 PM	#4
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,405 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	So basically a whole bunch of Muslim Brotherhood members, supporters and associated family have been killed. A few others, but the vast majority being the above - folks who press for the repression of women, Shariah law and the execution of anyone who does not follow their Islamic creed. My tears of sorrow are insufficient to even fill a thimble. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

08-15-13, 02:02 PM	#6
BossMark Fleet Admiral Join Date: May 2011 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire Posts: 15,272 Downloads: 278 Uploads: 0	Me thinks this going to turn into a full scale civil war, but hopes to god I am wrong. __________________ Never trust the Tories look what Thatcher and Major did in the 80s and 90s and look what the wicked witch May is doing now doing now

08-15-13, 02:09 PM	#7
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,816 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Oberon, the Arab Anti-Spring already started long before. Wherever, the Spring broke out, it ended with the fundamentalists claiming power and starting to erode the democratic principles that brought them there to establish a Shariah-based regime. They try it in Tunisia. In Libya. In Syria. In Egypt. Egypt is not the beginning of that Anti-Spring. It's just the latest spring-breaker turning into winter. Without the fundamentalists abusing their power over the past year, the military would not be on the streets today. A fundamentalist regime is no expression of a functional democracy - it is the end of democracy. Fundamentalism, and democracy and humanism cannot go together. They are mutually exclusive. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-15-13, 01:28 PM	#3
kranz The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Poland Posts: 1,430 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	When they put Mubarak into prison my grandfather said that some nations have to be kept on a very short leash. If not, everything falls. Well, seems like he was right.

08-15-13, 01:58 PM	#5
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Anti-Muslim sentiments on the third post. Stay classy GT. Religion or no religion, the situation in Egypt is spiralling out of control, and with a vast portion of the worlds trade going through the Suez and the possibility of this creating a ripple effect as a sort of anti-Arab Spring, it's a situation that's got a lot of people quite concerned, and rightfully so. This is quite possibly the most important event to happen to Egypt since, well, at the very least the Yom Kippur war, but I'd go back even further to the Second World War, or beyond.

08-15-13, 01:57 PM	#9
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,816 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	From the moment on when the West helped the fundamentalists into power, none of the events, by their sequence , really came as a surprise. Not the attempt by the religious to abuse democracy to install a fundamentalist state, not the military stepping onto the scene, and not the pogroms the MB now runs against the Coptian Christians (once again). There are worse scenarios for Egypt than a military ruling. From an American, European and Israeli perspective, anything is better than a fundamentalist regime establishing its power in Egypt. I strongly recommend to learn - finally learn! - from the examples set by Turkey, Tunisia, Libya and Syria. We should only consider our options for influencing if the fundamentalists come back to power. Unfortunately, Europeans so far act exactly by the opposite, and Obama is manouvering. What is needed again, is a relatively stable Egypt that keeps the religious in check. Like Mubarak did. I know the military is corrupted in itself to quite some degree. But that is the far lesser evil. Ideological and idealistic maximum demands will not help the situation. What is needed from a Western POV is Realpolitik and a healthy amount of remembering our own and Israel's interests. Beyond that, this is an issue the Egyptians have to deal with and to solve - it is their conflict, so let them run the show. Let them do it, and let us stay out as long as not our vital own interests are affected. In solutions bringing the fundamentalists into power we shall not have the smallest interest. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.