WW3

11-26-11, 12:36 AM

troubled time ahead, or simply sabre rattling.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...U-S-China.html

CaptainMattJ. · 11-26-11, 01:01 AM

my thoughts exactly.

joegrundman · 11-26-11, 03:00 AM

this article here provides a little overview of what went on on Obama's recent tour of Asia and Australia and the degree to which this was a carefully constructed and successfully executed diplomatic offensive against China.

http://blogs.the-american-interest.c...cheek-for-now/

the gist is that it has been a serious setback for Beijing.

Platapus · 11-26-11, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Michael Auslin, like many other Americans, is infuriated by the brutishness with which the dragon is now flexing its military muscles

That, I believe is the perfect definition of hypocrisy.

Jimbuna · 11-26-11, 08:13 AM

Let us hope it is only sabre rattling.

China will be more capable in military terms in the future though.

Platapus · 11-26-11, 08:43 AM

China is too busy making money to want to go to war. Globally linked economies are a great way to reduce the threat of war.

This is one of the reasons I want the US to have economic treaties with countries like Cuba, North Korea, and Iran.

Capitalism is a good path to democracy albeit a slow path at times. Whether you are a socialist or a fascist or anywhere in between, everyone likes to make money and buy stuff.

.

About the only thing that unites all of humanity is the desire of parents to have their kids have a better life.

joegrundman · 11-26-11, 08:32 AM

yes, of course it's hypocritical, but in this sort of game, that doesn't matter.

To illustrate what I mean:

If the US parks its butt on China's doorstep and defines any attempt by China to remove the US butt from that position as "aggression" - then that is what it is.

It is a dangerous time for China right now. While China may be the rising power, and the US the declining power, it is currently the case that

a: US power is still at present far greater than Chinese power (and the US military has been battle-hardened over the last 10 years while the Chinese have not fired a shot in war in any current soldiers' lifetime)
b: the US is in financial difficulties, with China the main creditor
c: the US political system is simultaneously grinding to a halt in terms of normal functionality and has become "seduced by militarism" as Andrew Bacevich describes it.
d: sooner or later, assuming no significant change to the current trajectories of the US and China, Chinese military capability will increase while US will have to relatively decline, which means of course that the balance of power will proceed to become less favourable for the US with every passing year.

China has to play very carefully right now, and must respond to the US diplomatic offensive that i referred to in the above post with great restraint, and accept that there are always bumps, even on a generally upward curve.

Any precipitate action on China's behalf risks getting into something big with the increasingly unpredictable, yet very dangerous, United States.

11-26-11, 12:36 AM	#1
sidslotm Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	WW3 troubled time ahead, or simply sabre rattling. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...U-S-China.html

11-26-11, 01:01 AM	#2
CaptainMattJ. The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sin City Posts: 1,364 Downloads: 55 Uploads: 0	my thoughts exactly. __________________ A popular Government without popular information nor the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own Governors must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives - James Madison

11-26-11, 03:00 AM	#3
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	this article here provides a little overview of what went on on Obama's recent tour of Asia and Australia and the degree to which this was a carefully constructed and successfully executed diplomatic offensive against China. http://blogs.the-american-interest.c...cheek-for-now/ the gist is that it has been a serious setback for Beijing. __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

11-26-11, 08:13 AM	#5
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,645 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Let us hope it is only sabre rattling. China will be more capable in military terms in the future though. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-26-11, 08:43 AM	#6
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,379 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	China is too busy making money to want to go to war. Globally linked economies are a great way to reduce the threat of war. This is one of the reasons I want the US to have economic treaties with countries like Cuba, North Korea, and Iran. Capitalism is a good path to democracy albeit a slow path at times. Whether you are a socialist or a fascist or anywhere in between, everyone likes to make money and buy stuff. . About the only thing that unites all of humanity is the desire of parents to have their kids have a better life. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

11-26-11, 08:32 AM	#7
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	yes, of course it's hypocritical, but in this sort of game, that doesn't matter. To illustrate what I mean: If the US parks its butt on China's doorstep and defines any attempt by China to remove the US butt from that position as "aggression" - then that is what it is. It is a dangerous time for China right now. While China may be the rising power, and the US the declining power, it is currently the case that a: US power is still at present far greater than Chinese power (and the US military has been battle-hardened over the last 10 years while the Chinese have not fired a shot in war in any current soldiers' lifetime) b: the US is in financial difficulties, with China the main creditor c: the US political system is simultaneously grinding to a halt in terms of normal functionality and has become "seduced by militarism" as Andrew Bacevich describes it. d: sooner or later, assuming no significant change to the current trajectories of the US and China, Chinese military capability will increase while US will have to relatively decline, which means of course that the balance of power will proceed to become less favourable for the US with every passing year. China has to play very carefully right now, and must respond to the US diplomatic offensive that i referred to in the above post with great restraint, and accept that there are always bumps, even on a generally upward curve. Any precipitate action on China's behalf risks getting into something big with the increasingly unpredictable, yet very dangerous, United States. __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill