Illegal to talk to a Police Officer?

[Stealhead]

It is also very clear if you pay attention in the clip that the passenger spoke in a very disrespect towards authority manner then the cop told him shut his mouth which he kept moving displaying his intent not follow instructions.

Even when you know the cop is wrong it is wise to simply keep your mouth shut and remain calm.A good friend of mine had a bad incident where he legally pulled a gun on a man who approached him at knife point a by stander thought that my friend was the assailant not the victim and called the police in the mean time the true assailant ran away.

Two police approached and one who was not so good a cop arrested him on the spot.Lucky for my friend he remained calm and did not say much of anything in the end several witnesses and the second lower ranking good cop got the situation corrected.

[Ducimus]

Obligatory video:


Oh, and one thing ive always wondered about cop hatred threads, is how many people who bitch about cops, obey the law in the first place. If you watch the above video, i personally cleared in the first step.

Obey the law.

Of my own accord, ive been stopped by a cop, twice in my entire life. First was for speeding, second was out of date tags.

Of NOT of my own accord, ive been detained by the cops, twice that i can recall. Both times were not of my doing, but my drunken Ex's doing. (loud and biligerant in the first incident, lying to the cops on the second incident, and i was nowhere around, i was at home, modding SH4. ) I remained calm, polite, did as instructed, always told the truth, and both times I walked away, without a scratch, either physically or legally.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by August

Being a cop doesn't make you something other than human though. Making a single strong statement does not prove, to me, that he lost his cool.

working in a meat dept. dosen't either...but I am Expected to deal with people in a calm and respectful manner no matter what. If a 19 year old making 8.50 an hour is expected to act this way, a trained police officer on a traffic stop damn well better act like that too. Even if the passenger did "speak disrespectfully" the police officer is the professional, nobody else gets to behave in this manner and not get in trouble at work.

[Ducimus]

Working as a retail clerk behind a counter, is not the same thing. As a retail clerk, your talking to the customer. Your trying to get that person to buy something from you.

A cop, is not trying to sell you anything, he is there to enforce the law. You are not a customer, you are either: the citizen let off with a warning, the signatory of a citation, or a suspect in a criminal investigation,..... but customer.... no.

[Stealhead]

You are trying to compare vastly different jobs in your line of work(and most peoples) the possibility of encountering a possibility violent person is highly un-likely the odds that a cop will is highly likely and would require them to maintain control of a situation as best as possible.All I can say is walk a mile or two in cops shoes (or more like a year or two) and see things from their perspective rather than having a most of them are big heads attitude.

If one cant take strong verbal statements/someone in authority telling you what to do explicitly all I can say is they should stay far away from the military because they would really dislike basic training and the military as whole as commands given are not to be questioned and by law the same applies to any person when a law enforcement officer is telling you to do something.Anyone who served will tell you that some superiors where good and fair and other where not but that they respected the rank and authority that their position warranted and most times extremely bad apples got dealt with in the correct manner.The same rules can be applied to civilian law enforcement.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

When what Ive read , reads like every other cop hatred thread i have read, your damn right its gonna get pigeon holed.

Once again, this is not intended to invite discussion on how much we (allegedly) hate cops.
Pigeon-Holeing. So you are lumping me into the group of cop haters? Nice. Thanks for that.

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Oh, and one thing ive always wondered about cop hatred threads, is how many people who bitch about cops, obey the law in the first place. If you watch the above video, i personally cleared in the first step.

Obey the law.

Yea, so? Obey the law, ofc. But what has that got to do with the passenger asking the cop something and the cop telling the guy to shut his mouth?
Sorry, don't see the correlation here.
Ask a cop something, without aggression, without swearing, without sarcasm, end-result: Shut your mouth! Nice cop, full of civilty. So why don't all cops say to people: shut your mouth then?
I've been pulled over for random breath tests, speeding and have encountered professional police men and women and when i have asked them questions, which by the way i am entitled to do they haven't replied with: shut your mouth.
If they did, then i would take offence to that and possibly take it further.

Of NOT of my own accord, ive been detained by the cops, twice that i can recall. Both times were not of my doing, but my drunken Ex's doing. (loud and biligerant in the first incident, lying to the cops on the second incident, and i was nowhere around, i was at home, modding SH4. ) I remained calm, polite, did as instructed, always told the truth, and both times I walked away, without a scratch, either physically or legally.

Not much different from the passenger asking a question, although the circumstances are different, but, asking a general question is not illegal, nor is it against the law.

Originally Posted by gimpy117

working in a meat dept. dosen't either...but I am Expected to deal with people in a calm and respectful manner no matter what. If a 19 year old making 8.50 an hour is expected to act this way, a trained police officer on a traffic stop damn well better act like that too. Even if the passenger did "speak disrespectfully" the police officer is the professional, nobody else gets to behave in this manner and not get in trouble at work.

Agree, at the end of the day, you treat people how you want to be treated.
Doesn't make any difference where you work or what you do.

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Working as a retail clerk behind a counter, is not the same thing. As a retail clerk, your talking to the customer. Your trying to get that person to buy something from you.

I doubt if that's the point he was making, he was generalising, i think.
Treat people how you want to be treated.
Wearing a badge doesn't make that any different.

Originally Posted by Stealhead

You are trying to compare vastly different jobs in your line of work(and most peoples) the possibility of encountering a possibility violent person is highly un-likely the odds that a cop will is highly likely and would require them to maintain control of a situation as best as possible.All I can say is walk a mile or two in cops shoes (or more like a year or two) and see things from their perspective rather than having a most of them are big heads attitude.

Aha, yea sure i get that a cop's job is dangerous etc etc.
But, that is not the point of this discussion, is it?
We are not debating how dangerous a cop's job is.
We are debating that a cop should have some resemblance of civilty and act with a bit of professionalism.
Not tell a guy to shut his mouth.
Pretty primitive imo.

If one cant take strong verbal statements/someone in authority telling you what to do explicitly all I can say is they should stay far away from the military because they would really dislike basic training and the military as whole as commands given are not to be questioned and by law the same applies to any person when a law enforcement officer is telling you to do something.Anyone who served will tell you that some superiors where good and fair and other where not but that they respected the rank and authority that their position warranted and most times extremely bad apples got dealt with in the correct manner.The same rules can be applied to civilian law enforcement.

Once again, i don't think that is the point of this discussion.
No-one it seems has a problem with getting told what to do here.
Once again, i re-iterate that the discussion is about how one person speaks to another.

I don't know about the rest of you but i was always raised with the belief that it is ok to question things.
To ask questions, in a civil and polite manner.
And i will continue to ask questions if and when i am entitled to, which is pretty much everywhere.
It is my human right. That to me is more important than some clown telling me to shut my mouth if and when i ask a question.

Just a few points Feuer.
You are basing this on a recording of the only the part of the encounter so you cannot say all he did was "Ask a cop something, without aggression, without swearing, without sarcasm".
From what is available it can be seen that this event was not a one off with the people in the car, apparently the nasty cops have a vendetta against his family and hate his brother because...well because he has accidents and drives without insurance and with dodgy tags.
It looks live you may have been taken in by a whining pikey.

[August]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

working in a meat dept. dosen't either...but I am Expected to deal with people in a calm and respectful manner no matter what. If a 19 year old making 8.50 an hour is expected to act this way, a trained police officer on a traffic stop damn well better act like that too. Even if the passenger did "speak disrespectfully" the police officer is the professional, nobody else gets to behave in this manner and not get in trouble at work.

When was the last time you had a shootout in the meat department? Let's not compare apples and oranges here.

[Gerald]

In "normal" cases, it usually is not talking very special, for the simple reason that what has (already posted above) that the potent suspects have already been realized that any further exposition of the word, is not to his advantage, quite the opposite

[Ducimus]

Ok, i think i see the crux of the issue here. A shattered sense of fair play.
"If I have to be nice, then soinso should too! So there!"

This may be a shock to some of you, but the world is not a fair place, and not everyone follows the same set of standards. As the old saying goes, nobody EVER said life was fair.

The world in fact, is a cold hard mistress. Nobody knows this better then anyone who has to deal with the ugliness of the world, head on. While your sitting there smug with yourselves, totally absorbed in your own little world, there is a TON of crap your not seeing or dealing with.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Ok, i think i see the crux of the issue here. A shattered sense of fair play.
"If I have to be nice, then soinso should too! So there!"

This may be a shock to some of you, but the world is not a fair place, and not everyone follows the same set of standards. As the old saying goes, nobody EVER said life was fair.

The world in fact, is a cold hard mistress. Nobody knows this better then anyone who has to deal with the ugliness of the world, head on. While your sitting there smug with yourselves, totally absorbed in your own little world, there is a TON of crap your not seeing or dealing with.

It is true, you have no experience, living far from what I would call "crap" and you're grateful you do not have to deal with it, others take care of it instead

[jumpy]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I don't hate them, but I'm not putting my rights in jeopardy because I want to be a nice guy. There are great cops and bad cops out there, and you don't know which one you're dealing with when they stop you or come knocking on your door. That's why I take the say nothing route.

Quite so.

Had I followed what two traffic police had leaned on me to say, I'd have a criminal record now.
But no, they were set on doing more than just their job; which should have been to give me a producer and send me on my way - should I fail to meet the requirements of said producer, the courts would deal with me appropriately - that was not good enough for them though.
I spent almost an hour in the back of a panda car being threatened with the law and spoken to in a coercive manner, all because I did not have the correct 'papers' (which I was not obliged to carry anyway), whilst these two goons thought they'd earn some brownie points back at the station. In their eyes I was guilty of an offence and they were determined to pursue that regardless of the facts.

Right or wrong, that incident coloured my view of the police, all police, from then on.
I had been brought up to respect the office of the law, and for the most part still do so, but I have no illusions that it is there for my benefit if push should come to shove. Too many young gung-ho officers who are far too arrogant and cocky to deserve the respect of the man in the street.... standards are obviously lacking, as some of the old boys I have had encounters with have been, for the most part, quite reasonable people and not facsimiles of 2 dimensional action figures you see in american cop shows (fictional and that dog bounty hunter thing).

Stuff happens on youtube and everyone gets all bent out of shape from one side or another. Fact is (and no offence to anyone previous or currently serving - besides it should not be uncomfortable to hear this if you're a genuinely dedicated professional) I do not trust the police to act in my interests, based upon my own personal experience noted above and in other situations. This, I think, is partly to do with current legislation and how certain laws are made and how they are enforced. It's not just a dislike of authority on some arbitrary point.
You may not like my view, but it's not your job to like it, and any man or woman acting as a professional will clearly see past that and understand that this is just another part of the job they must accept: as a representative of the state and by extension, if people don't trust the state, they will not trust you, no matter your values and integrity as an individual, they will see a uniform and all that it does or does not represent.

Three other things worth saying - literacy, and the shocking lack of it with most of the current officers I have met, and failure to qualify to understand the law that they are supposed to uphold. PCSO's are a shining paragon of these deficits, but I'll not go there. And finally, fingerprints and dna being retained following arrest and release without charge... to my mind something is very very wrong there. All of those people who peddle the 'nothing to hide nothing to fear' line of nonsense had better keep their mouths shut and behave in a meek and compliant manner when they eventually fall foul of their own maxim.
We have already seen how the law in the UK has changed with the effect of criminalising large parts of the community, so whilst you might be a law abiding citizen today, you might find yourself a criminal tomorrow - I firmly lay that at the door of meddling politicians and ill considered legislation.

Perhaps I can sum it up best by saying I trust no-one (except a few blood relatives) to look out for me and mine - foolish and misplaced trust (blind loyalty, if you will), be it in authority or those you might feel a certain loyalty for, is asking for trouble.
That's a pretty dim view of the world, I'll admit. But as Ducimus has just said, nobody ever said life was fair; a sentiment that works for all walks of life, be you an ordinary bloke, a copper or a politician.



EDIT:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13268633

"To many, today's verdict will seem like a statement of the blindingly obvious, however this fails to take account of the significant and many obstacles faced by the family over the last two years to get to this decision.
"The CPS will now review whether a prosecution will be brought following today's verdict and the way in which the evidence has been clarified during the inquest process."

This is exactly the sort of thing that makes me edgy when it comes to accepting the explanations of authority and law enforcement. This and other high profile cases where law abiding citizens have been killed by police or died in police custody, whilst often with the most complex and difficult circumstances I'll grant you, none the less leaves me ill at ease.
Anyone remember the lies told by senior police figures regarding the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes? This even extended to doctoring photos of the man to make him look more like the suspect they were really after, and finally the grossest insult to an innocent man shot dead by police was for the story that came out later on in the investigation into menezes killing, alleging that he had rapped a woman, all to discredit his innocence and to divert blame in a catastrophic ---- up by many ground level and senior policemen and intelligence organisations.
There was no conviction for his killing, and I hold no serious hope that the family of Ian Tomlinson will see one either.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Vendor

It is true, you have no experience,

In law enforcement, no i don't. Although I do have a couple relatives who are in LE. Three relatives actually, now that i think of it. I contemplated LE work myself for awhile, but decided that A.) I don't care to have a job where im required to carry a weapon, and most importantly, B.) I would have a hard time "serving and protecting" the general public. I've always had what we refer to in my house as "PH level" or "public hatred level". Some days its higher then others. Suffice to say, i hate the general public.

living far from what I would call "crap"

Yes i am. Ive seen enough of the world to know how lucky i really am. I am far far far removed from the crap of the world. In fact im sheltered from it working an offiice job, living in a cubicle, and i know it. I know it because i wasn't always sheltered. By my standards, i haven't been living in the "real world" for some time. Ive seen it before, and it sure as s _ _ t aint the life im living now. My biggest concern is if ill get laid off, thats IT. Comparitively, that's a trivial worry.

and you're grateful you do not have to deal with it,

Yes i am. I know how ugly the world, and people, can be.

others take care of it instead

Thats why they have the badge, and I respect that.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

My biggest concern is if ill get laid

fixed that for you

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

In law enforcement, no i don't. Although I do have a couple relatives who are in LE. Three relatives actually, now that i think of it. I contemplated LE work myself for awhile, but decided that A.) I don't care to have a job where im required to carry a weapon, and most importantly, B.) I would have a hard time "serving and protecting" the general public. I've always had what we refer to in my house as "PH level" or "public hatred level". Some days its higher then others. Suffice to say, i hate the general public.




Yes i am. Ive seen enough of the world to know how lucky i really am. I am far far far removed from the crap of the world. In fact im sheltered from it working an offiice job, living in a cubicle, and i know it. I know it because i wasn't always sheltered. By my standards, i haven't been living in the "real world" for some time. Ive seen it before, and it sure as s _ _ t aint the life im living now. My biggest concern is if ill get laid off, thats IT. Comparitively, that's a trivial worry.


Yes i am. I know how ugly the world, and people, can be.


Thats why they have the badge, and I respect that.

Duc! What I wrote in my post was not directed personally, as I think you already understood, what I am saying is that some times there are many things involved, and in terms of jobs, it is often about timing, and the chance to do everything , interest naturally,but I'm glad you mention the word respect, which many take for granted that there is only so must be."Thats why they have the badge, and I respect that",very good