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SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997 |
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#1 |
SUBSIM Newsman
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Germans wrestle with multicultural identity
What does a true German look like? Or rather, what do Germans think a true German looks like? The question is at the core of a debate which simmers - and occasionally boils over - as Germany tries to define itself in an age of migration.Gunter Piening, for example, thinks his blond hair and blue eyes make him the picture of German-ness - but he doesn't like that perception.He is Berlin's Commissioner for Integration and Migration, and he told the BBC: "A lot of people think that 'German' is an ethnic category - that Germans are blond and blue eyed."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12090328 Note: 30 December 2010 Last updated at 05:56 GMT
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Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie ![]() |
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#2 |
Navy Seal
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Angela Merkel's statement has no basis in reality, because the word “multiculturalism” means nothing more than the functioning coexistence of various cultures within a community, which means that multiculturalism is in fact a universal, timeless concept.
Merkel’s comment was mostly meant as a concession to the conservative grassroots of her own party. Another factor that perhaps led to the German chancellor’s statement is that the economic crisis in Germany, as in Europe at large, has given rise to a spreading climate of uncertainty. In uncertain times, people get nervous – and nervous people tend to behave more aggressively. The failure of German Turks to assimilate is a well-documented phenomenon. A 2009 study by the Berlin Institute for Population and Development found that even after 50 years and three generation in the country, Turks remained a people apart. Religion would seem to be one of the underlying reasons for the Turks’ persistent outsider status. Turks make up the majority of Germany’s 4 million Muslim residents, and despite the secular reputation of 20th century Turkey, there is abundant evidence that their brand of Islam has been in tension with German culture and society. Solution: Take the long, hard step of building a societal-wide consensus that acknowledges Islamic particularism…and its incompatibility with Western traditions. |
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#3 | |
Soaring
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The Islamic particularism - is nothing else but racism and supremacism, btw. . A Herrenkultur it claims to be, like regarding the Aryan cult in the Third Reich we talk of the Herrenrasse. On the article, Merkel is the evidence that something like intellectual nihilism does exist. And her set of paroles and phrases is very limited - that'S why she is sounding so very repetitive. The word "alternativlos" I cannot hear anymore, sometimes I thought over this year that she uses this word more often than Yes and No together. And to define German-ness by the looks of the blue-eyed blond Siegfried-kind of guy, does not make sense. The more to the East you move in Germany, the more you will see another visual model dominating, and I do not talk of Oriental imigrants, but the native people living in the region of the former Prussia, being influenced by the genetic heritage of the slavic people: in Berlin and surrounding regions for example you see dark-haired, dark-eyed males much more often than the blue-eyed, blond type, and more often than in the Western and Northern part of Germany. What "German" means, touches upon things like historic identity, cultural background, value system, the basis one's philosophical thinking is founded upon, recognizing the influence of the Christian-Judaic tradition, an identity that preferes certain art styles over others. You cannot build a cluster of traditional Japanese wood-and-paper houses in Bavaria and then say that that would be "typical German". Being German (or American or French or Australian) is more than exchnaging one ID card for another, and a stamp on a document means nothing, is just a formal bureaucratic thing. And multiculturalism: regarding Islam, it failed miserably in Germany, and necessarily must do so - that'S why it is failing in all other European countries as well. Islam is not multicultural, but monocultural. The Quranic teaching explicitly rules out the tolerant acceptance of other cultures, but demands that there shall be only one culture: Islam. Coexistence never is based onm tolerance and respect, but is only meant to be temporary - lasting only as long as Islam is not strong enough to overcome the other culture. There will be no peace, says Islam, as long as there is still something left that is not Islam and by the fact of its existence poses a threat and challenges Islam's claim for undisputed reign. If you want peace, you thus must spread Islam. - That is no interpretation thing, but partially is said explicitly, partially is an implication of the revealed word of Allah himself. That is what the Quran is taken for: it is the word of Allah himself (its different with the Bible, and should not be compared). Us mortals have no right to want to change and interpret the word of God himself. Thinking that we may do that - is heresy. - The inten tional rejection to integrate, cannot be excused. But it can be explained. Regarding Turks, both Islam and their traditional cultural patriarchalic burden exlain why Turks so often refuse to integrate. There are those who do integrate, yes. But they are not exemplary, but the exception from the rule. They are the minority, and not even a big one. And typically they do not care for influencing their countrymen to integrate.
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If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 12-30-10 at 07:13 AM. |
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#4 | |||
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I stress this, incompatibility.
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The country has little need of unskilled labor illiterate in German, although it is facing a labor shortage for highly qualified positions. The German economy is doing far better than the rest of Europe due to niches in machine tools, construction equipment, and other high-quality capital goods; every factory in China runs on German machine tools. Unlike the 1960s, unskilled immigrants are now more of a burden than a blessing to German industry. The facts the global press failed to mention, however, include the fact that an important motivation for the Chancellor's remarks lies in Germany's profound disillusionment at the radical Islamist tendencies in Turkey's government, led by Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, and Germany's alarm at Turkey's drift towards Islamism. |
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#5 |
Sea Lord
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My solution?
Send them all back to Turkey or wherever they come from. If they don't want any part in German society, what are they doing there? They are coming to Germany, so they should behave as a German expects them to. That means obeying cultural rules and speaking the language. Don't want to do that? In that case you have no business there. And yes, I think a true German looks like this blond-hair-blue-eyes ideal. Not necessarily blond hair or blue eyes, but most certainly Germanic facial characteristics. Which by the way doesn't mean there is one kind of German. Germans from the south look different from their northern compatriots.
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#6 |
Admiral
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If current trends continue, the turks can never take over Germany
Just think about it guys, most turks in Germany are illegal immigrants anyways. The rest that are legal belong mostly in the uneducated lower class anyways turks taking over Germany is just like Mexicans taking over the US if current trends continue, it will never happen |
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#7 | ||
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You have no experience in your job? Sorry we can't take you. You can't operate SAP? Sorry we can't take you? If one puts the level of what a person is supposed to be qualified in to unreachable heights then one shouldn't complain that one doesn't get any "good" people. Today companies don't want to invest in their personnel any more. You are supposed to know everything the day you start. That's impossible of course but our glorious managers think it's good for the books and it's cheaper to whine and demand more people from India (who aren't better then we are, but they are at least cheaper). Quote:
If you sign a new employment contract then you will find really low wages there nowadays. You've got to be happy to get 30.000€ gross pay a year as an academic. I know some who get less. They got 20.400€ a year as academics! I did an intern ship 5 years ago with a company that operates buses and I talked to some of the drivers. The average public service bus driver earned more than that back then. Why did we actually study? Rant over, now I feel better. ![]()
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Putting Germ back into Germany. ![]() |
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#8 | ||
Admiral
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@penguin
my statement was an estimate, but i think its partially correct Quote:
from http://www.migrationinformation.org/...lay.cfm?ID=235 Quote:
1.9 million(turks)-654,000(born in germany)-575,000(obtained german citizenship)= 671000 (turks in germany without german citizenship) majority>50%, therefore, if the amount of illegal turks exceed 335500, the majority is illegal. therefore, if the percentage of illegal immigrants that are Turkish exceed 33.55%, a majority of turkish people in germany is illegal(i can't find statistics on the origin of illegal immigrants) but still, my mistake. I was stupid to make assumptions that i have no data to back |
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#9 | |
Ocean Warrior
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The numbers you mentioned are about corrrect, your conclusions are not. First: if you're born here, you don't automatically obtain german citizenship, we have jus sanguinus here, vs. jus soli like in North America. So the number of Turks with a turkish passport are ~ 1.3 mil Second: There are many ways to live legalyl here if you are not a citizen: Do the words visa or work permit ring a bell? So assuming anyone who doesn't have german citizenship is illegal here is complete bs. Due to its nature, the composition of the illegal immigrant population is not undermined by hard facts. Just assuming that the biggest part of the illegals would be Turks because they make the biggest percentage of the legal foreigners is wrong. Because of the fact that it is comparatively easy for them to live here legally, the percentage is significant lower. If you would know the german reality, you would see that there are many other foreign nationals who make up the illegal population. The number of illegals differ between 1-2 million btw. Hey, I even knew an illegal Mexican here, quite unique here in Germany! ![]() |
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