[UNCOVERED] SH5 officially left for dead!

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

This sim is dead and buried. I really wanted to enjoy it but even the mods I installed can't help it. The only kudos I can give is to the modders who tried their best.

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by privateer

BBW did massive amounts of work on the Campaign files.
But took the summer off waiting for Units to be imported.

I'm busy creating Add-ons for S3d that allow working with SH5 Controllers
in S3D, along with other Tools all may need.
This will allow new Ships to be imported by the masses that use S3D.

We do what we can, when we can, as fast as we can.
Even when we are working with less then minimum system specs.

Most don't bother to read yours and other SH5 modders posts.

They jump to the bottom of the thread without reading and play the lame comedian or bring THEIR negitivity.

I have since reaquired SH5 and am looking forward to the future.

I for one am looking forward to your work. Thx Privateer

[SteelViking]

Originally Posted by John Channing

Then you had better read some more.

During the Norwegian campaign Sub commanders were specifically ordered to concentrate on Naval vessels and, if necessary, to ignore merchant shipping.

As I said in aother thread, given the Doenitz knew exactly how much tonnage he had to sink on a monthly basis to bring England to surrender, and given that he had around 40 operational U-Boats, do you really think he told the commanders just to go out to Grid X and see what you can find? Do you think his orders to Prien was to drop by Scapa Flow and have a quick look see?

Of course they had mission requirements.

JCC

I have to side with jdkbph on this one John. My research/reading does not point to specific missions being assigned very often if at all. Mostly it was assignments to a specific patrol grid. Of course, those patrol areas were not just random, they would be in major shipping lanes. And, as you stated sometimes they were assigned to combat warships.

So, I suppose what would be the most realistic would be a sort of mix of the two systems. Perhaps they(bdu) could give you a strategically placed patrol grid, and give you instructions on whether you are to concentrate on merchants or warships(and it could get a bit more specific).

However, the idea of being assigned to sink 2 battle ships here, sink 1 aircraft carrier there, now sink 100,000 of shipping in this other place, is not realistic by any means.

Originally Posted by Kapitanleutnant

You're not wrong. The subsim staff just have battered wife syndrome and will defend SH5 to the hilt, including making excuses for its failure with disingenuous and intellectually dishonest arguments.

Statements like this are absolutely not called for. This does not help anyone's case. John, who puts his time and effort into making this a better place for all of us to communicate especially does not deserve to be insulted like this. His research could very well support exactly what he is saying, mine does not, but that does not make either of us disingenuous.

[Jan Kyster]

Originally Posted by John Channing

Then you had better read some more.

Sorry for the OT...

- but couldn't resist because of the guesswork re. what BdU wanted or not. Do you know the entire BdU War Log has been compiled?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2199433/UB...s-1939-to-1945


Here you'll find all orders to each and every boat during the entire campaign (RL, not UBI) day-by-day.



Enjoy. It's only some 2500 pages...

Note it can be downloaded in PDF, Word and plain text.

If SH5 is 'REALLY DEAD?"
Shouldn't this be moved to the
Wait for it.............
Drum roll please........


SubSim Army of Zombies
thread?

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by privateer

If SH5 is 'REALLY DEAD?"
Shouldn't this be moved to the
Wait for it.............
Drum roll please........


SubSim Army of Zombies
thread?

Technically it's not quite dead yet, hasn't died and therefore has not yet had the chance to become undead.

OTOH this provides a great opportunity for further comedic segue:

[JScones]

Originally Posted by Jan Kyster

Do you know the entire BdU War Log has been compiled?

And don't forget interrogation reports and U-boat KTBs. They are a great source of information on things like wolfpack tactics, dive sequences, watch information, operations (some nice special missions as well), daily menus etc etc. Some great stuff. Pity the devs didn't use them. Anyway, the common theme insofar as patrol orders is this:

-U-boat gets assigned an operational area
-U-boat goes to said operational area
-U-boat receives orders from Doenitz (ie, move to new area; attack convoy just north of your operational area; hold/observe/report)
-U-boat rinses and repeats

Yes, of course there were "special missions" and some of the spy dropping and document running missions are interesting reads. Likewise the ones where they open their sealed orders midway (ie, "proceed to La Spezia" kinda stuff). But these were not the norm. For example, the Spanish Agency reported the sighting of "Renown", "Furious" and a second aircraft-carrier in Gibraltar. U-138 was given sealed orders to attack the ships and/or any cruiser it found there. SEALED orders, not "Meh, this time you need to sink these 3 big warships in Gibraltar" orders (just think of the breach of security in doing this).

BTW: By all accounts Prien's orders were primarily to infiltrate Scapa Flow for propaganda and disruptive purposes. He was not tasked with specifically sinking The Royal Oak, just told that there were plenty of targets to go for. I can't imagine the sinking of an obsolete WWI battleship as being anything other than a target of opportunity supporting the primary aim of the mission.

Originally Posted by Kapitanleutnant

You're not wrong. The subsim staff just have battered wife syndrome and will defend SH5 to the hilt, including making excuses for its failure with disingenuous and intellectually dishonest arguments.

comments like this are very uncalled for.

while subsim has often had possitive things to say about sh5 they certainly have no axe to grind and stand to gain nothing by missleading anyone.

while i think neals comment of sh5 failure is caused by the fans sounded unfair because the "fans" didnt ask for or create the DRM which was the reason it had such bad sales so the largest blame for failure goes to THAT.

but i think he was refering to the great negativity expressed about the game which i agree is probably the thing that killed any desire ubi may have had to continue support if that is indeed what has happened.


EDIT:

heck here in the USA they just reported this when Apple released its new gadget phone:

only 60% of the US has high speed internet or slightly slower connections
25% have dial-up connection only
15% of the US market has no cable or internet connection other the DSL where available

so that means only 60% of the USA had the possibility to be a customer if they wanted too. now thats an old can of worms but making your product unusable to half your potential customers is what killed sh5 IMO

NOTE - (i may be slightly off on the percentages but if i am its not by much)

Originally Posted by krashkart

Technically it's not quite dead yet, hasn't died and therefore has not yet had the chance to become undead.

Now your makeing my head hurt!


In some threads. SH5 is dead.
In others, SH5 is not dead.
In yet others we are reviveing SH5.


So..........
By definition.....
SH5 is UnDead!
Zombie!!!!

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by privateer

Now your makeing my head hurt!


In some threads. SH5 is dead.
In others, SH5 is not dead.
In yet others we are reviveing SH5.


So..........
By definition.....
SH5 is UnDead!
Zombie!!!!

I submit to your superior powers of observation and.. um... mentali... -tude. Yeah, mentalitude.

-edness.

I r English teh knows-how.

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

They jump to the bottom of the thread without reading and play the lame comedian or bring THEIR negitivity.

HEY, I RESENT THAT!

I really like the SH series but in reality the devs didn't do the series justice by giving us SH5 like this. I dunno but it feels like a rush job and the dev team moving on so quickly after. I also have this feeling that negative comments get to walk the plank. If so make sure at least I get a cigarette. But I did take my Prozac...How's that for a lame joke.

[Placoderm]

Originally Posted by John Channing

Then you had better read some more.

During the Norwegian campaign Sub commanders were specifically ordered to concentrate on Naval vessels and, if necessary, to ignore merchant shipping.

As I said in aother thread, given the Doenitz knew exactly how much tonnage he had to sink on a monthly basis to bring England to surrender, and given that he had around 40 operational U-Boats, do you really think he told the commanders just to go out to Grid X and see what you can find? Do you think his orders to Prien was to drop by Scapa Flow and have a quick look see?

Of course they had mission requirements.

JCC

John, with all due respect, you and others keep bringing up this "Norwegian Campaign" as justification for SH5's myopic attention towards capitol ships...but in reality the 'campaign' was barely a footnote in the overall u-boat war both because of it's utter failure as a strategic doctrine and moreso because it was far, far from what most uboats were tasked to do. (quite frankly because of it's very failure to be of any use in helping the war effort)

Uboats were in virtually every other case specifically ordered to avoid any and all warships unless circumstances prevented otherwise. It was just too dangerous, and the uboats were too valuable to waste on such strategicall useless targets. Doenitz was trying to strangle England by cutting off it's supplies...not by attrition of it's warships. The fact that he was forced to do so with so few submarines (fewer than 15 on station at any one time when the war broke out) meant that he could not risk any unnecessary encounters with warships...he needed to stop the flow of goods into the UK. Doenitz did not have to sink ship tonnage to win the war...he had to sink supply tonnage. The ships that carried those supplies were just a means to an end.

The raid at Scapa Flow was not so that Prien could sink The Royal Oak...but was rather designed to be a psycological blow to both the people of Britain and it's navy. It would have been just as successful and probably just as historically significant if Prein had only sunk a few destroyers or barges...because the key was not what he sunk, but the mere idea that he was able to penetrate the defenses of the port that was the pride and the core of the Royal Navy.

There just is no intellectually honest way to defend SH5 on it's historical merits. It has none.

What SH5 does have is the finest graphics ever to grace a submarine game. It has beautiful water and gorgeous 3D modeling. It is gorgeously ambient, stunningly immersive, and captivating to the imagination. It portrays in ways never before acheived a sense of being there on the high seas in a tiny metal tube with the wind and the spray in your hair and purpose in your heart to return to base victorious!

In those ways, SH5 does what it does best.

But please don't kid yourself in thinking that there is anything historical about it. The dates are wrong, the targets are incorrect, the missions and the goals are nothing but pure fantasy. SH5 is to history what Star Trek is to science...it is exciting and inspiring, but eventually you have to come home from the convention, take off the pointy ears, and come to the realization that it was all just pretend and make-believe. There is no magic soup, and submarines never 'raced' to save the Bismark...One-eyed first officers stayed in port, and submarines were sent to destroy supplies, not taskforces.

I have learned to accept SH5 for what it is...not for what I wished it was. I had wished it would be a historical simulator. I accept that it is a very beautiful game.

It is easier to accept that simple truth than it is to re-write history.

There are times when I wish I could cook all the
'Negativity Stuff' up and inject it!

When I see 'It can be done'
in any shape or form?
It's better then a pot of Kpt.'s coffee!

Some people are going to be SOOOO
kissing backside sooner or later!

[SteelViking]

It can be done.

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

HA I just love all this. While Ubi is enjoying all of our money, we're here killing each other. Ain't the gaming industry just grand?