Obama rips pending Arizona immigrant law ! (politics)

[Turbografx]

Halt! Papieren bitte. Keine papieren? GEGEN DIE MAUER! SCHNELL! KINDERN AUCH DABEI!

Seriously though, what naivety to think that racial profiling won't be involved. Of course it will.

I have no problem with immigrant/guest workers being issued relevant papers and identification, that's reasonable.

What I take issue with is the blanket approach taken in this bill which affects the treatment and rights of citizens of the United States. It puts the burden of proof on the citizen to prove that he is indeed what he is. Why should a citizen be subject to delay, detainment or arrest resultant from government sanctioned racial profiling? Racial profiling is subconscious and natural and, enabled by these new powers, will lead to the harassment of legal hispanic citizens.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Turbografx

Halt! Papieren bitte. Keine papieren? GEGEN DIE MAUER! SCHNELL! KINDERN AUCH DABEI!

Seriously though, what naivety to think that racial profiling won't be involved. Of course it will.

I have no problem with immigrant/guest workers being issued relevant papers and identification, that's reasonable.

What I take issue with is the blanket approach taken in this bill which affects the treatment and rights of citizens of the United States. It puts the burden of proof on the citizen to prove that he is indeed what he is. Why should a citizen be subject to delay, detainment or arrest resultant from government sanctioned racial profiling? Racial profiling is subconscious and natural and, enabled by these new powers, will lead to the harassment of legal hispanic citizens.

I think the use of probable cause would be used quite a bit concerning this bill. Sadly the probable cause is you look Mexican. Thus the profiling.


What is your suggestion to the problem?

[Turbografx]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I think the use of probable cause would be used quite a bit concerning this bill. Sadly the probable cause is you look Mexican. Thus the profiling.


What is your suggestion to the problem?

I would require businesses to keep records of employees IDs (like bar tenders/waiters must already do) and would do random checks on these (like ABC already do), would require some kind of proof or ID to enroll your kids in school, have doctor checkups etc. Basically, I would make the services very hard to take advantage of.

Then, I would introduce harsher penalties for illegal immigrants who are caught. Labor, deportation or something (hey! you finally get to work!)

Finally, I would open up and improve avenues for legal immigration. Including assistance with language learning and cultural integration.

[AVGWarhawk]

In the state of MD employeers are responsible for not hiring illegals. When they do and are caught fines are pressed. Usually the business is closed. However, when this happens it is the usual profiling and civil right (for illegals mind you). It is the same old song and dance. As far as penalites...deport. Go through the proper channels for citizenship.

Something needs to be done. This law in AZ is just the wake up call to the Feds and the rest of the country. Lets face it, the killing and drugs are out of hand. Nothing is being done. I understand that the White House was contacted 5 times concerning AZ and a personal visit was made by the Senator of AZ (Brewer?). Nothing was done.

[AVGWarhawk]

And so it goes. Run for the border before 2012!

"It is impossible for me and any other serious Democrat to get this body to move forward until we prove to the American people we can secure our borders," Mr. Graham told Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, who was testifying at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing.
"I believe we can do it by 2012 if we're smart," he said.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ll-until-2012/

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're all white males, and have never been profiled in your lives.

If you're a law abiding American citizen and happen to be Hispanic, would you be annoyed if you constantly got pulled over by the cops just because of how you look?

Cute how no one really replied to that post. Could it be you have nothing?

[tater]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

Cute how no one really replied to that post. Could it be you have nothing?

I'll answer, "white" male that I am.

Yeah, you'd be annoyed. The question is WHO you should be annoyed at. The choices are those trying to protect YOU, and your tax dollars, or the illegals who forced this by their criminal act.

That's it. That's the choice. My buddy Pablo makes me look like a bleeding heart commie. He'd absolutely fall in this category, and I KNOW (I'll ask him tomorrow when I see him to be sure) that he'll have ZERO problem with this, and will complain they didn't do it years ago.

According to the US census, there are ~45 million hispanics in the US. About 12 million are illegal.

Read that again. ^^^^

Almost 1/3 are illegal.

Be mad at the 12 million criminals, not the police. When northern European types in the US are 1/3 criminals, heck, even 20% criminal aliens, I'll happily carry my passport around.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

Cute how no one really replied to that post. Could it be you have nothing?

Not really, as I posted in another thread to you, my dad was always searched at the airport. He was in his 70's and still searched....every time. Let profile old white guys today! The old man was searched all the time. Christ, he could hardly walk.


My boss with a last name is Sanchez is on the terrorist watch list?

Does any of it make sense?

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

My boss with a last name is Sanchez is on the terrorist watch list?

Does any of it make sense?

4 airline captains i used to fly with regularly were on the terror watch list.



its a waste of time and resources.

coming out of every overnight the TSA, FBI and the airline all had to agree to let the captain on the airplane in the morning.

go figure

your tax dollars at work

[AVGWarhawk]

Of course it is a waste GR....we are all security cleared with the government in my office!!! LOL.

Oh, raping and pillaging is nonsense....got it. Drugs, murder and other illegal activities such as raping and pillaging is nonsense...got it.

Yes, simple isn't it. If no one is saying all that crap is OK then your statement against it was just nonsense.

No, most people are complaining about human rights....Al Sharpton is heading to AZ to protest for human rights...not that this will not work. Recheck the complaint.

Most people are talking about civil rights, the legality and the constitutionality.
Al Sharpton is certainly not most people, but what did he say?
errrrr ....oh yeah civil rights
organise freedom walkers for civil rights(thats like the freedom riders of the civil rights movement but without buses)
Forcing wrongful arrest by refusing to hand over documentation....thats a civil right as only citizens can really refuse that request and thus be wrongfully arrested
Perhaps you had better recheck yourself.
In fact if you recheck the two topics that deal with this here the only people even mentioning "human rights" are people like yourself.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Yes, simple isn't it. If no one is saying all that crap is OK then your statement against it was just nonsense.


Most people are talking about civil rights, the legality and the constitutionality.
Al Sharpton is certainly not most people, but what did he say?
errrrr ....oh yeah civil rights
organise freedom walkers for civil rights(thats like the freedom riders of the civil rights movement but without buses)
Forcing wrongful arrest by refusing to hand over documentation....thats a civil right as only citizens can really refuse that request and thus be wrongfully arrested
Perhaps you had better recheck yourself.
In fact if you recheck the two topics that deal with this here the only people even mentioning "human rights" are people like yourself.

Errrrrr........

[CaptainHaplo]

Argue with a stop sign AVG - its still a stop sign....

As for this - the reality is that it will be so freakin funny if the DOJ comes up and says this is unconstitutional. Because it mirrors federal law! That means that federal immigration law will have to be deemed unconstitutional - and I don't think any career politician wants to go there.

I have no problem with this - but I do think there are better ways to solve the problem. Instead of requiring proof of citizenship/legal immigrant status, what should be done is the following

#1) Deny illegals any form of social safety net through the government. This means no welfare, food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid, etc. Provide proof of legal status, and you get the benefits of the taxpayer funded net.

#2) Require proof of legal residence from parents enrolling children in schoos.

#3) Hold employers accountable - not only with fines, but with imprisonment, for intentional or consistent hiring of illegals, or any lack of due diligence in ascertaining proper legal status. This means if an employer does their job, and an illegal makes it into the workforce, they are not punished, mistakes happen - but when it is a policy - it needs to be hammered down on.

Realize that many illegals do work - but they do so under the table. By not paying taxes, they rob the system. They also avail themselves of the social safety net, taking even further (because they have no "job" - they get significant benefits - while earning money) from the rest of society by double dipping as it were. Then add in the jobs that they have....

12 Million illegals. Pretend only 1/3 of them work for a moment. Now - if all the illegals were not able to collect social net benefits, and couldn't find work, that would be a HUGE burden lifted off the government dole system, as well as would free up 4 Million jobs for the current, legal workers in the country....

Of course, that makes too much sense, so we can't enforce the existing laws and cut off the illegals access to freebies.

[tater]

Haplo, even if they work it doesn't matter, the whole lot together don't pay in enough taxes to even notice, even assuming all 12 million work (average per capita illegal income is around 8 grand a year, so even just the FICA if all paid would be chump change.

Also, they send a large fraction of their incomes back home—which is why Mexico enables illegal immigration.

Your points are excellent, though.

[CaptainHaplo]

Tater - at 8k a year - they could file taxes and get not only what they paid in (if they actually did) - but would qualify for all the EIC handouts too! I totally agree they are a draining regardless, it just amazes me that somehow this is more about civil rights of people illegally here - than it is about the civil rights of the legal citizen to not have his wallet robbed by illegals on welfare, have his job stolen by illegals, and not have his streets safe to walk because of illegals who also happen to be pushing drugs, raping and killing US citizens.

What about OUR civil rights?