VIIb or VIIc?

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by pickinthebanjo

yeah there are afew. The easiest (as it's in the game) is when your in base. Go to where you upgrade your boat, and in the bottom left corner of the screen you should see a question mark(I think) that should be it.

another is to google SH3 tech tree, I look it up all the time (can't ever remember the names of those torpedoes)

I believe Carnovaro's Document Collection contains a copy of that tech tree you mention. You can find it in the Downloads section: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1487.

The tech tree is located in the Carnovaro's Document Collection\Chapter 1 - Sheets\Upgrades Chart\ directory.

Originally Posted by Convycmg

(twice the fun in those last moments before you get bombed)

Welcome aboard Subsim, Convycmg!

[Iranon]

Originally Posted by Paul Riley

Who in their right mind would even question German quality and efficiency anyway?

During WW2? Many people. 'Awesome design, shoddy build quality' tended to be the norm. To make things worse, the 'awesome' often got in the way of efficiency.

The type XXI is a good example of this. While the design was considerably ahead of its time, too many concessions had be made to make it mass-producable in inland facilities hopefully out of reach of allied bombers. The modular build process proved to be beyond the ability of companies who had nothing to do with ships before.

In the end, over 100 were built and they never sank anything because only a handful were combat-worthy by the end of the war. Considering more conventional production could have seen them in action from 1943 on, this is a lot of wasted potential.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Convycmg

1st post, and it was this one that pursuaded me to register as I'm now at the stage in my own career where I can now opt for a VIII/c.

So far the only substancial upgrade I've made to my VIII/b after starting the war with 7th Flotilla is to add a double-barrel flak gun (twice the fun in those last moments before you get bombed), but besides the flak armament, is there a way of finding out which other upgrades (such as sonar-proof coating, radar signal detector, schnorkel, etc) are available for the VIII/c but are for the other?

Many thanks!

Welcome aboard

[Paul Riley]

Originally Posted by Iranon

During WW2? Many people. 'Awesome design, shoddy build quality' tended to be the norm. To make things worse, the 'awesome' often got in the way of efficiency.

The type XXI is a good example of this. While the design was considerably ahead of its time, too many concessions had be made to make it mass-producable in inland facilities hopefully out of reach of allied bombers. The modular build process proved to be beyond the ability of companies who had nothing to do with ships before.

In the end, over 100 were built and they never sank anything because only a handful were combat-worthy by the end of the war. Considering more conventional production could have seen them in action from 1943 on, this is a lot of wasted potential.

You are 100% right,fantastic staggering designs,crippled by a war they were slowly losing and the onset of running out of time.The same can be said for other revolutionary 'wonder weapons' the Germans were designing,like supersonic orbital bombers.I saw a documentary once about these weapons and I was blown away,and all of this was concieved in the 40s too...remarkable!

[geosub1978]

The fact that the XXIs didn't see action earlier is very suspicious to me. I have visited both the VIIC in Kiel and the XXI in Wielhelmshaven. There is no comparison between them. The XXI is like a tough modern conventional submarine.

They didn't see an earlier action because they were first designed for a different engine layout. If you look at uboat.net for the XVIII, you see what took em so long. They should get Walther-turbines first but problems with manufactoring and maintainance of thoses engines pushed the project off until it was decided to give them conventional engines instead (and to rename the type). Another hurray for us slow working german bureaucrats...

[pickinthebanjo]

On the topic of the XXI here is something designed of that design:
http://www.projectboats.com/whiskeysub.html
"The initial design was developed in the early 1940s as a sea-going follow on to the S-class submarine. As a result of war experience and the capture of German technology at the end of the war, the Soviets issued a new design requirement in 1946. The revised design was influenced by the German Type XXI submarine and was developed by the Lazurit Design Bureau based in Gorkiy."

And for any of you rich people if you got a half a mil. laying around you may feel like owning this lol

[Immelman]

To get back on track my personal fav to sail with is definitely the VIIB.

As designed by the game its only drawback being the 3 seconds longer diving time. You will not have as many flak true but I try to avoid air combat to begin with.

Advantages are a lower profile in the water makes it harder to detect. Faster speed both on and under water make it ideal. More mileage per battery recharge since you move faster under water. (Ahead 1/3 VIIB 5kts VIIC 4kts. VIIB = more mileage)

Note: in real life I would go for the VIIC as it had many more advantages that are not represent in the game. (see Uboat.net)

[Reinhard Dietz]

Immelman, thanks for the observations. I was all set to get a VIIC at the end of my current patrol, but sounds like I'll stick with the VIIB for at least one or two more patrols. I'd love to have more torpedoes and that faster diving time is really great but the stats you list are probably decisive.

Once the countermeasures launchers come along, I'll definitely be in a boat that allows them.

Pros:

VIIC:
Faster dive time.
Deeper max depth.
More flak configurations.
More range.

VIIB:
Slightly faster, both surfaced and submerged.
Smaller conning tower siloette.

Personel experience:
The VIIC gets hung up while surfacing, leaving the tower exposed without the benefit the watch crew, or you, for a few seconds.

VIIB recommended over VIIC.

[Immelman]

I do believe that in game both range and crush depth are the same. Otherwise good list

It wouldn't shock me to learn that the game ranges are equal.

The (UNADVERTISED) max depths do differ.
Without ruining anything with a spoiler, here they are from shallowest to deepest:
IIA
IID
IXB
VIIB
IXC
IXD2
VIIC, VIIC/41, VIIC/42 (identical)
XXI

The advertised max depth show the IXs as being able to go deeper than the VIIs.
On pushing the limits, it's not true (unaltered/stock).

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

It wouldn't shock me to learn that the game ranges are equal.

The (UNADVERTISED) max depths do differ.
Without ruining anything with a spoiler, here they are from shallowest to deepest:
IIA
IID
IXB
VIIB
IXC
IXD2
VIIC, VIIC/41, VIIC/42 (identical)
XXI

The advertised max depth show the IXs as being able to go deeper than the VIIs.
On pushing the limits, it's not true (unaltered/stock).

I'm simply curious....what information or data from the game did you use to compile the list?

[Reinhard Dietz]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

The (UNADVERTISED) max depths do differ.
Without ruining anything with a spoiler, here they are from shallowest to deepest:

Hey, if you wouldn't mind, feel free to spoil any and all technical data you care to share via PM. My current commander's interests would be served by knowing just how deep he can take any of the boats he does or may command.

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I'm simply curious....what information or data from the game did you use to compile the list?

Community Manual.
mysh3.info
Commanding the U-boat.
U-boats.
(chart) "maximum depths".