Who says Texans live in the dark ages?

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

of course we elected a gay Democrat for Mayor. The other candidate was a black Democrat.

I took a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_Texas

Surprised again, I thought Texas was a Republican bastion...

Well I've learnt something today.

I guess I have a lot to learn about how politics works in the U.S.

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

What the **** would you call someone on a white pride march other than a racist?

The idea of taking pride in ones sexual orientation or skin colour allways seemed weird to me. It should not be something to either be ashamed of or take pride in.

There's nothing wrong with showing pride in ones beliefs or ethnicity.

The problem is that the minorities are given a green light, while the majorities are given a red light and given a PC label with an "ist" or "ism" tacked on for effect.

There was a gay guy running for office in The Netherlands who was assasinated.
Fact is, had I been dutch, I would have voted for him for his political stances, regardless of his sexual preferences.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Méo

I took a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_Texas

Surprised again, I thought Texas was a Republican bastion...

Well I've learnt something today.

I guess I have a lot to learn about how politics works in the U.S.

You may find this a bit enlightening: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrat

Originally Posted by Skybird

Read my sig. If you haven't noticed it, it is fully valid in the context of this thread's object, too. If you don't believe that, try to criticise a gay rights march in a public media - and see how very intolerant the PC brigade and those being criticised all of a sudden can become. The acceptance of almost totalitarian rules to enforce your withdrawing from your opinion often is not far away then.

Truth in exposing the double standard of the "tolerence" and PC croud. Write on (double meaning intended).

[AVGWarhawk]

This is not a big deal. Just another day in politics and realty of the USA. There are many gays and lesbians that are productive members of society. You will find gays in lesbians in every part of the working world.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Méo

I took a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_Texas

Surprised again, I thought Texas was a Republican bastion...

Well I've learnt something today.

I guess I have a lot to learn about how politics works in the U.S.

Just in case no one caught that, that was sort of a joke. You know, Texans elected a gay woman because the only alternative was a black man...humor...eh? Probably not as funny as the voices in my head made it sound...

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

There's nothing wrong with showing pride in ones beliefs or ethnicity.

The problem is that the minorities are given a green light, while the majorities are given a red light and given a PC label with an "ist" or "ism" tacked on for effect.

There was a gay guy running for office in The Netherlands who was assasinated.
Fact is, had I been dutch, I would have voted for him for his political stances, regardless of his sexual preferences.

How can you take pride in something that you had nothing to do with. You do not choose your ethnicity, it is something you are born with. Personally only take pride in my achievements.
White pride is just as silly as black pride or yellow pride etc. in my book.

[Morts]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Just in case no one caught that, that was sort of a joke. You know, Texans elected a gay woman because the only alternative was a black man...humor...eh? Probably not as funny as the voices in my head made it sound...

well, i laughed

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

This is not a big deal. Just another day in politics and realty of the USA. There are many gays and lesbians that are productive members of society. You will find gays in lesbians in every part of the working world.

They aren't terrible people. The fact that they are homosexual has as much to do with us, collectivly, as it does with them.

Homosexuality in animals (4 legged as well as 2 legged) can be brought about by overpopulation. It's one of natures ways of trying to control the birth rate.

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

How can you take pride in something that you had nothing to do with. You do not choose your ethnicity, it is something you are born with. Personally only take pride in my achievements.
White pride is just as silly as black pride or yellow pride etc. in my book.

Do you take pride in your country?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

Do you take pride in your country?

No. Nor do I feel ashamed by my nationality.

Antikristuseke sees it right, I think. You can take pride only in some kind of personal acchievement or performance. A skill you learned. A deed you did. A consequence you caused.

But being proud of living under a blue sky? Or being proud of being born in this country instead of another? - Or being proud of having this skin colour, and not another, or this sexual orientation and not another? where'S your personal acchievement in that quality you are porud of? You did not even contribute to it! Hell, you even did not get asked!

You can prefer this over that, and you can like or dislike to be this or that, or to stay here or there. You can love it and find it pleasant, or not. But being proud? Maybe parents can be proud of the acchievements of their offspring, because their educational success may be reflected in their children'S records, and thus: their investement/contribution. But I already have a problem when it is the other way around and the offspring says he is proud of his father/mother. My father was a classic musician. They said he did well on his instrument. Am I proud of him for having been member of a big famous orchestra? No. It was his acchievement, not mine, and I did not assist him in it. But I love him for being like that, and i love him for having been part of some great music being performed. But love is not the same like pride.

And then a principle thing, since it is often mistaken: pride, and honour, are two different things. What is it many moral systems and religions have to say on pride? They usually do not rate pride as a virtue, but a sin, don't they. I wouldn't go that far, but I prefer honour over pride any day.

so to come back to your question, I used to like living in Germany, because of it's landscape that I like more than most others i have seen in the world, the security and comfort it provides (different to some other nations I have seen) , and the access to medical help that you have (unknown in some countries), if needed. But proud of all that - I am not, because I did not make Germany to be that way.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

They aren't terrible people. The fact that they are homosexual has as much to do with us, collectivly, as it does with them.

Homosexuality in animals (4 legged as well as 2 legged) can be brought about by overpopulation. It's one of natures ways of trying to control the birth rate.

Well of course they are not terrible people. But I need to qualify that because there are some that are terrible. But this goes hand and hand with hetersexuals as well. Concerning your last sentence and natures way of control birth rate, can you elaborate on this?

[Méo]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

You may find this a bit enlightening: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrat

Thanks,

Altough interesting, it's a bit weird, they seem to crossover..

Originally Posted by Skybird

No. Nor do I feel ashamed by my nationality.

Antikristuseke sees it right, I think. You can take pride only in some kind of personal acchievement or performance. A skill you learned. A deed you did. A consequence you caused.

But being proud of living under a blue sky? Or being proud of being born in this country instead of another? - Or being proud of having this skin colour, and not another, or this sexual orientation and not another? where'S your personal acchievement in that quality you are porud of? You did not even contribute to it! Hell, you even did not get asked!

You can prefer this over that, and you can like or dislike to be this or that, or to stay here or there. You can love it and find it pleasant, or not. But being proud? Maybe parents can be proud of the acchievements of their offspring, because their educational success may be reflected in their children'S records, and thus: their investement/contribution. But I already have a problem when it is the other way around and the offspring says he is proud of his father/mother. My father was a classic musician. They said he did well on his instrument. Am I proud of him for having been member of a big famous orchestra? No. It was his acchievement, not mine, and I did not assist him in it. But I love him for being like that, and i love him for having been part of some great music being performed. But love is not the same like pride.

And then a principle thing, since it is often mistaken: pride, and honour, are two different things. What is it many moral systems and religions have to say on pride? They usually do not rate pride as a virtue, but a sin, don't they. I wouldn't go that far, but I prefer honour over pride any day.

so to come back to your question, I used to like living in Germany, because of it's landscape that I like more than most others i have seen in the world, the security and comfort it provides (different to some other nations I have seen) , and the access to medical help that you have (unknown in some countries), if needed. But proud of all that - I am not, because I did not make Germany to be that way.

Pride:
Source - The New Oxford American Dictionary.

A feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one's own achievements, the achievements of those with whom one is closely associated, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired. (The team was bursting with pride after recording a sensational victory. - A woman who takes great pride in her appearance.)

The consciousness of one's own dignity. (He swallowed his pride and asked for help.)

The quality of having an excessively high opinion of oneself or ones importance. (The sin of pride.)

A person or thing that is the object or source of a feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction. (The swimming pool is the pride of the community.) {End quote from Oxford}.

Pride can and does go far beyond self achievement.

[Skybird]

A definition that catches a widespread populistic understanding of the term, but I very strongly disagree with it's correctness.

wikipedia:

Pride

is, depending on the context, either a high sense of the worth of one's self or one's own or a pleasure taken in the contemplation of these things. Social psychologists identify it as linked to a signal of high social status.[1] One definition of pride in the first sense comes from St. Augustine: "the love of one's own excellence." [2] In this sense, the opposite of pride is humility.
Pride is sometimes viewed as excessive or as a vice, sometimes as proper or as a virtue. While some philosophers such as Aristotle consider pride a profound virtue, most world religions consider it a sin.
According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary, proud comes from late Old English prut, probably from Old French prud "brave, valiant" (11th century) (which became preux in French), from Late Latin term prodis "useful", which is compared with the Latin prodesse "be of use".[3] The sense of "having a high opinion of oneself", not in French, may reflect the Anglo-Saxons' opinion of the Norman knights who called themselves "proud", like the French knights preux.[citation needed]
When viewed as a virtue, pride in one's appearance and abilities is known as virtuous pride, greatness of soul or magnanimity, but when viewed as a vice it is often termed vanity or vainglory. Pride can also manifest itself as a high opinion of one's nation (national pride) and ethnicity (ethnic pride).

As ex-psychologist I especially agree with Wikipedia's entry on pride in psychological understanding:

Pride is "a pleasant, sometimes exhilarating, emotion that results from a positive self-evaluation" (Lewis, 2002). The standard view of pride was that it results from satisfaction with meeting the personal goals set by oneself. Most research on pride attempts to distinguish the positive aspects of pride and the negative. Pride involves exhilarated pleasure and a feeling of accomplishment. Pride is related to "more positive behaviors and outcomes in the area where the individual is proud" (Weiner, 1985). Pride is generally associated with positive social behaviors such as helping others and outward promotion. According to Bagozzi et al., pride can have the positive benefits of enhancing creativity, productivity, and altruism.

The reference to oneself, one's own view of oneself, one's own merits, is dominant in these explanations. While they mention nation in one sentence, nevertheless I question the justification for that. at least one has to base national pride on one's own role in giving the nation the status one is proud of. Just having won this and no other ticket in the birth lottery is not enough to explain national pride. And where oyu are refering to be porud on your role in that nation'S fate, you again refer - to yourself and your personal role, merit contribution.

If you do not play any role in forming your nation, you have no cause to be proud to be of that nationality. and that can be said of ethnicity, social groups and whatever else, too.