Well... they did it

[AVGWarhawk]

Do you really need to benifit yourself to help others?
Do you really need to make a huge profit, if you're a doctor?

I guess, again this is a mentality difference between Europeans and Americans.

Let those doctors who wish to make profit work in the field of plastic surgery, like enlarging boobs, removing fat or reworking faces of Hollywood celebs, which is not lifethreatening demands, and then let the real caring doctors really help all the ill people.

I have but one answer for this....tort cases. Malpractice insurance is just over the top and rightly so when a doctor can be sued at a tip of hat. Imagine, malpractice insurance is over 100k+ per year per doctor. Now, to be sure, some patience are due compensation for wrong doing but by and large most cases are fraud. This is just one part of the system that needs to be fixed.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Carotio

Anyone in Gods own country remember the story of the mercifull Samaritan?
Since there was no benifit to themselves, the first people passed by, leaving the poor guy in the dust, till the mercifull Samaritan came by.
Though I'm not particular religious, this story does appeal to me.
Do you really need to benifit yourself to help others?
Do you really need to make a huge profit, if you're a doctor?

Hate to break it to you, but being in a family that is made up of about 90% surgeons, Nurses, Anesthesiologists and Hospital Administators... i know a lot of young people both related to me and not related to me who are in the entering college age group who are entering the field of medicine.

they all have the "like to help people" thing going on which is great...

but consistently the number one or number two attractant to the health care industry in these individuals is the high salaries and the rather exceptional quality of life that Doctors and Surgeons and Anesthesiologists are able to live.

I have asked every single one of them... "would you go through with your plans to become a surgeon, digging jars of Jelly out of an obese man's anus (true) or digging into the guts of an aids infected patient if the pie in the sky salary drastically dropped down to $100K or less?"

UNIVERSALLY the answer was not no...

it was HELL NO.

when you start fining health care providers for providing health care, and when you start pressing the sorts of taxes and fines etc on the health care system you WILL see roving salary reductions... that is a FACT as plain as day... when these administrators start having to pay more out to the federal government and start having to take on the sort of health care structure the president is pushing - extra money will have to come from somewhere... and that WILL be the employees of the hospital from top to bottom pay cuts are just a fact of the health care package.

this is the opinion of every doctor, every nurse, every physical therapist, every anesthesiologists and every hospital administrator i have had the privilege of discussing this issue with.


If it were up to the truly selfless people of the world to provide all the health care... the line into all three hospitals in the world would be hundreds of miles long.

[AVGWarhawk]

I have asked every single one of them... "would you go through with your plans to become a surgeon, digging jars of Jelly out of an obese man's anus (true) or digging into the guts of an aids infected patient if the pie in the sky salary drastically dropped down to $100K or less?"

UNIVERSALLY the answer was not no...

it was HELL NO.

Yep, being an ER physician all his life, my dad can hardly walk now with all the walking he did on 12 hour shifts 4 night straight every week in the ER. Telling parents their child has died. Telling elderly that their spouse has died. Keeping half living bodies alive in the ER until surgeons can arrive. For a better part of my childhood he worked all the holidays. That crap takes it toll. I certainly would not do it for minimum wage. No sir. I have seen first hand what it did to my dad. My sister is a nurse and she worked in geriatric. She is out of it now. The elderly who were ignored by their family as they passed their waining days in the old folks home got to her mentally. Especially when Monday she is talking to them and come Tuesday the person is dead. Not my cup of tea for $7.50/hour and all the lawsuits you can swallow.

[GoldenRivet]

AVG is correct.

both of my parents routinely sleep in a hospital lounge, or call room 3 or 4 nights per week waiting for trauma cases to come in.

My mother routinely has to tell parents that their child is dead, or that the father of the family has been killed in a wreck.

i would estimate her annual salary to be $250K

in her words... its still not enough money to deal with the psychological and physiological stress day in and day out.

The president's bill will gain no sympathy from me... it is another case of a big wig wanting more for less.

[AVGWarhawk]

This is going to kill a lot of careers on Capital Hill and will probably kill this bill. To me, this is probably the largest issue of all concerning this bill.

An amendment included in the House health care bill passed this weekend promising to restrict federal funding for abortions has reignited a fiery debate on one of the most controversial issues in the country.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/abort...ory?id=9034995

[AVGWarhawk]

Sadly, with this and all the bailouts Obama is effectivly intruding in our lives. He is intruding more than any president that went before. Soon government will have ownership in all and done so with our tax dollars.

[KeybdFlyer]

My wife & I would like to thank those of you in this thread who are against this bill for your unstinting opposition to it. She, at slightly less than my 61 years, fell down the stairs of our apartment just short of 4 months ago but has yet to receive any form of treatment for the agonising pain she is in - save for the nightly heat packs I apply to her arm, shoulder and hip. We do not know what damage has been done, nor will we ever, as we cannot afford private health insurance.

In May of this year, I began passing blood along with my urine. I do not know why this happened or if it is anything "serious", nor am I likely ever to do so as long as insurance companies charge premiums that exceed the amount of disposable income we have available to us.

Whilst I feel genuine sympathy for the plight of the mother of one of the contributors to the thread, who receives a pitiable $250k for her emotionally painful duty to inform parents of the death of their child, my sympathy is tempered by the knowledge that that figure is slightly over eleven (11) times the income my wife and I exist on. I will make the assumption that she also receives medical insurance through her employer.

My wife endured the emotionally distressing procedure of an hysterectomy just over four years ago. We are still paying-off that bill, which is bad enough in itself, what is really galling is that the amount still owing is only $1000 less than the original bill. After four years.

Yes. It is truly heartwarming to see that there are so many people who oppose anything at all if it means rubbing their political fur the wrong way, or possibly adding a few dollars to their taxes or removing a few more from multi-billion dollar "industries" (I remember when they used to call themselves "services", but any idea of serving the public vanished decades ago). Thank you all for playing your part in ensuring that both our lives will continue to be lived with fear of contracting an illness, or meeting with an accident, or simply of getting even older.

Thank you one and all.

[antikristuseke]

In case someone missed it, I think KeybdFlyer is being sarcastic.

[AVGWarhawk]

Sacastic or not, medschool is not free and goes far beyond just the 4 years in college. Malpractic insurance is not cheap. I guess he did not look into that. Mentally, medicine takes it toll on doctor/nurse, physically as well. Just like cops, they get to work the the real cream of the crop. What, does every Tom, Dick and Harry show up in the ER with a boo boo? Lets try broken bodies from accidents. Gunshot wounds to the head. Raped women and girls. In short go spend a 12 hour shift in the ER and experience it. When an old man is pronounced dead in front of you what a doctor does takes on a whole new meaning. Until one experiences what goes on in the ER they have very little room to comment. George Clooney getting banged on a gurney is not how it is.

BTW, it is not rubbing the fur in the wrong way. It is more freeloading that will happen. You nailed it on the head, a few dollars each week. Fine, works for me. If you do not contribute you do not get treatment but ya know what, that ain't gonna happen. I pay my premium and a few dollars for Tom, Dick and Harry.....add anyone else who does not wish to contribute on top of that. This is how it will work. It is a crap bill set up by a friggin house mom by the name of Pelosi. Get real.

No sarcasim!

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by KeybdFlyer

My wife & I would like to thank those of you in this thread who are against this bill for your unstinting opposition to it. She, at slightly less than my 61 years, fell down the stairs of our apartment just short of 4 months ago but has yet to receive any form of treatment for the agonising pain she is in - save for the nightly heat packs I apply to her arm, shoulder and hip. We do not know what damage has been done, nor will we ever, as we cannot afford private health insurance.

In May of this year, I began passing blood along with my urine. I do not know why this happened or if it is anything "serious", nor am I likely ever to do so as long as insurance companies charge premiums that exceed the amount of disposable income we have available to us.

Whilst I feel genuine sympathy for the plight of the mother of one of the contributors to the thread, who receives a pitiable $250k for her emotionally painful duty to inform parents of the death of their child, my sympathy is tempered by the knowledge that that figure is slightly over eleven (11) times the income my wife and I exist on. I will make the assumption that she also receives medical insurance through her employer.

My wife endured the emotionally distressing procedure of an hysterectomy just over four years ago. We are still paying-off that bill, which is bad enough in itself, what is really galling is that the amount still owing is only $1000 less than the original bill. After four years.

Yes. It is truly heartwarming to see that there are so many people who oppose anything at all if it means rubbing their political fur the wrong way, or possibly adding a few dollars to their taxes or removing a few more from multi-billion dollar "industries" (I remember when they used to call themselves "services", but any idea of serving the public vanished decades ago). Thank you all for playing your part in ensuring that both our lives will continue to be lived with fear of contracting an illness, or meeting with an accident, or simply of getting even older.

Thank you one and all.

My sympathies to you and your situation. This is precisely the sort of thing that I cannot believe happens in our country every day. It's not fair and its not right.

[KeybdFlyer]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Sacastic or not, medschool is not free and goes far beyond just the 4 years in college. Malpractic insurance is not cheap. I guess he did not look into that. Mentally, medicine takes it toll on doctor/nurse, physically as well. Just like cops, they get to work the the real cream of the crop. What, does every Tom, Dick and Harry show up in the ER with a boo boo? Lets try broken bodies from accidents. Gunshot wounds to the head. Raped women and girls. In short go spend a 12 hour shift in the ER and experience it. When an old man is pronounced dead in front of you what a doctor does takes on a whole new meaning. Until one experiences what goes on in the ER they have very little room to comment. George Clooney getting banged on a gurney is not how it is.

Which was not my intended point in any way. I wouldn't do their job for the world - couldn't, in fact. But I would dearly like to be able to get medical advice when something goes amiss. I could respond by saying that those entering the profession know what is ahead of them before deciding on that career. But, of course, I won't.

@mookiemookie Thank you. But again, wasn't my intention (to receive sympathy). There are a lot worse-off people around than us.

[GoldenRivet]

keybdflyer.

my wife took a tumble down the stairs as well.

our insurance didnt cover much it.

still barely covers a portion of her $30,000 per year in lovenox injections she has to take in order to continue to live as a result of DVT.

funny how my wife received IMMEDIATE and effective medical care for the same problem your wife faced. im not sure how that works.

perhaps it because our government is not in the business of "taking care of us"?

i didnt want government health care then.

dont want it now.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by KeybdFlyer

Which was not my intended point in any way. I wouldn't do their job for the world - couldn't, in fact. But I would dearly like to be able to get medical advice when something goes amiss. I could respond by saying that those entering the profession know what is ahead of them before deciding on that career. But, of course, I won't.

@mookiemookie Thank you. But again, wasn't my intention (to receive sympathy). There are a lot worse-off people around than us.

Know what chief, my old man knew exactly what was ahead of him. As an intern he would delivery babies for poor black families. The family would give him a quarter which he did not take. Left it on the kitchen table. Please, a doctor is not a souless person only in it for the money. The job does that too him. You see brains spilled and gored bodies for a while...it will take it's toll. The worst for him was pronouning a child dead and telling the parents. Good luck keeping a straight mind doing that day in and day out. When I was a kid he would sit silent for a day or so. We knew something bad happened at the ER. He would eventually talk about it. Again, it ain't ER with George Clooney or House. That is made for TV.

BTW, over here the wife could go to the ER and so could you. I pay additional on my premiums for the uninsured. The ER would not turn you away. I have no issue with that...however, even some with insurance still can go bankrupt...the entire system needs to be overhauled not just have more money thrown at it. What else can I tell you?

[KeybdFlyer]

The ER, as is rightly pointed out, will not turn you away. But they will present you with a nice bill for the treatment. When I suggested calling an ambulance, wifey almost burst a blood-vessel in her attempts to stop me. I'm apologise for being one of the great unwashed who can't afford $75 to see a primary care-giver much less the $150 she was telling me the ER would charge. I feel I ought also to point-out that I am pretty vague when it comes to the actual workings of most American systems such as Health Care, as I've never needed to use any of them until the past 9-10 months. So there's not much use throwing figures and statistics at me - I won't get the point. The only fact I know is that when I lived in England, I paid the equivalent of about $25 a week in National Insurance (I'm sure it'll be a lot more than that now) and whenever I needed medical advice or treatment, I just went and got it. Not saying it was a better system, not saying the treatment was better, not trying to start an argument. Just trying, unsuccessfully it seems, to say that almost anything would be better than what is available here at the moment.

btw. I'm a Lieutenant, not a chief. The avatar says so.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by KeybdFlyer

btw. I'm a Lieutenant, not a chief. The avatar says so.

Oh, this will be well-received.