Obama punishes small country opposed to dictatorial ex-president

[August]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

So you mean articulo 239 which was amended in 1998 and 2002 and re ratified in 2003...which you havn't read so obviously can't undertand, just like you havn't read anything else in the constitution, which is why your knowledge appears to be based on nothing but a few badly written newspaper articles.
If you want to try and argue a point August it might help if you had even the slightest grasp of the basics on the subject

Heh, you still haven't produced anything besides personal attacks which are a poor substitute for the several parts of the Honduran Constitution that you claim are being violated.

So again Mr. Irish Honduran Constitution Expert whenever you are done stalling for time we're patiently waiting...

Heh, you still haven't produced anything besides personal attacks which are a poor substitute for the several parts of the Honduran Constitution that you claim are being violated.

Come back when you have actually read the document you are talking about August .

[August]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Come back when you have actually read the document you are talking about August .

All you have done so far here Tribesman is make several completely unsupported claims and spell the word "article" in Spanish, yet that is somehow supposed to prove to us that you know what your talking about on this issue better then the Honduras' own Supreme Court? I don't think so.

So when you get your research done and yor arguments prepared feel free to come back. I'm sure we'll all be waiting with baited breath.

Did I start this thread? Oh yes.... I must be a right wing fanatic!

The people are in charge .......... NOT the government. I suspect we will see this in many countries soon.

So when you get your research done and yor arguments prepared feel free to come back.

:rotfl:
How do you expect to be able to argue August when you havn't the faintest idea what the constitution says or what the courts ruling was ?
Do you even know what the proposed poll was that started the whole charade?
Obviously not or you would realise why article 239 could not have been used...then again as you don't even know what that article says you really are just mouthing off blindly.

[August]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

:rotfl:
How do you expect to be able to argue August when you havn't the faintest idea what the constitution says or what the courts ruling was ?
Do you even know what the proposed poll was that started the whole charade?
Obviously not or you would realise why article 239 could not have been used...then again as you don't even know what that article says you really are just mouthing off blindly.

Yeah whatever.

He is back in Honduras.
So now the questions are will the people who siezed power in an illegal coup risk attacking Brazil and how far will they go on the police/military clampdown on their own citizens?

[Skybird]

The question is will 30-40% of the population supporting him manage to overthrow 60-70% of the population opposing him, so that violation of the constitution, ignorring the state's leading bodies, and ignorring the request of the church to stop starting trouble finally will see illegitimate and undeserved reward. The question is if this hostile act of Brazil that by supporting this stunt now has joined the intelligence operations of Bolivia and Venezuela to destabilise Honduras and establish another Chavez there will even be rewareded and make honduras fall to the Chavezian union.

They should abandon diplomatic relations with Brazil (and Bolivia and Venezuela anyway) for these hostile nations deeds, especially the infiltration and destabilisation done by Venezuela and Bolivia in the past 2 years or even longer border to declarations of war and are a direct attack on the national integrity and souvereignity of Honduras. They should recall all their ambassador and staff from Brazil (and Venezuela), give the Brazilian staff in Honduras 24 hours to leave the country, and when they move to the airport sack Chavez' clown and put him on trial for high treason and abuse of the office and violating the constitution.

so that violation of the constitution,

The coup plotters who formed their own government which no country recognises as legitimate are in violation of the constitution.

They should abandon diplomatic relations with Brazil (and Bolivia and Venezuela anyway)

Ah diplomatic relations, that goes back to the opening post where 4 people from Honduras had their existing diplomatic visas taken away because they are now part of a government that is not recognised as a legitimate government which puts them in a diplomatic relations limbo. So threatening to sever relations with governments that don't recognise you isn't really an effective form of leverage.

They should recall all their ambassador and staff from Brazil (and Venezuela), give the Brazilian staff in Honduras 24 hours to leave the country,

Sorry Skybird , how many countries have already pulled out their staff from the country with which they no longer give diplomatic recognition to and also removed diplomatic recognition for that countries staff in their nation?
Threatening to take your football home when its already been punctured and thrown in the bin by the other players is a pretty pointless gesture.

[August]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

The coup plotters who formed their own government which no country recognises as legitimate are in violation of the constitution.

Or so you keep claiming anyways...

Or so you keep claiming anyways...

Since you havn't read the constitution you can't make any valid comment on the constitutionality of the actions can you August.

[August]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Since you havn't read the constitution you can't make any valid comment on the constitutionality of the actions can you August.

Actually that was my argument about you Tribesman. Unlike you I'm not claiming special knowledge of the Honduran Constitution. Special knowledge you have so far failed to demonstrate.

[Skybird]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8279243.stm

A top US diplomat says deposed Honduran President Manuel Zelaya was "irresponsible and foolish" to return before a settlement had been reached. Lewis Amselem, US ambassador to the Organization of American States (OAS), said Washington had asked Mr Zelaya not to return because of potential unrest.

(...)

"The return of Zelaya [without] an agreement is irresponsible and foolish. He should cease and desist from making wild allegations and from acting as though he were starring in an old movie," said Mr Amselem at an emergency meeting of the OAS.

"Having chosen, with outside help, to return on his own terms, President Zelaya and those who have facilitated his return, bear particular responsibility for the actions of his supporters," he added.

(...)

The interim government warned Brazil on Sunday that its diplomatic credentials would be revoked in 10 days if it did not grant Mr Zelaya asylum or hand him over.

More than half of the time that had to be bridged until elections in November, is over. If they will have free elections with all four current major candidates then, and a new government is formed, anybody not recognising it then will have to explain why he accepted a leftist coup attempt, but does not recognize a freely elected government chosen by the people of Honduras in regular elections that had been held as scheduled by the constitution's rule .

This hat. Oh boy, I really will miss this hat. Horse opera star he seem to think he is. Give the man a golden plastic star and a toy Winchester.

And a solid spanking for the deaths he already has caused in the name of his great ego.

If they will have free elections with all four current major candidates then

Its quite hard to hold free elections when they are arresting the opposition, closing down the media and imposing curfews on the electorate, not to mention abolishing the need for arrest warrants and introducing indefinate detention without trial.....so much for upholding the constitution eh.

anybody not recognising it then will have to explain

BTW how does an unrecognised illegal "government" hold legally recognised elections?

The interim government warned Brazil on Sunday that its diplomatic credentials would be revoked in 10 days if it did not grant Mr Zelaya asylum or hand him over.

How do you revoke the diplomatic credentials of people if they don't recognise you diplomaticly in the first place?

[martes86]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Since you havn't read the constitution you can't make any valid comment on the constitutionality of the actions can you August.

And you don't seem to have read it either. That, or you're just too stubborn to just post the text here so everyone can read it so as to keep saying how everyone has not read the constitution and thus should just shut up, which is IMO a childish attitude. Anyways:

ARTICLE 239.- A citizen that has had the titularity of the Executive Power cannot be chosen as President or Delegate.

He who breaks this disposition or proposes its reformation, as well as those who support it direcly or indirectly, will inmediately cease in the fullfilling of their respective postings, and will be disabled for ten years for the execution of any public function.

That's a direct quote I've translated from article 239 of the Honduran constitution. It's possible that the ways of the "de facto" government to "disable" Zelaya have been a little exaggerated, and in fact, the article doesn't mention any specific actions to be taken other than the dismissal of the respective persons.

BUT, that doesn't mean I disagree with them, in fact, I think that Zelaya guy is just another Chavez waiting to happen, and the only reason our government (Spain) supports them is because of the money the think they'll get by being all friendly, given how much investment our country puts in South America, and how Chavez has been nationalizing some spanish corporation's branches there.

Free elections? I'm sure there will be, it's just that the pseudo-dictator won't be present, but anyone else will be. Having another one of Chavez's puppets in a S. America government is bad for everyone, but specially for the US (see Chavez disrespectfully speaking of the US all the time), and still, it amazes me how they're actually oppositing the "de facto" government.

Cheers