It will be the end of the Democrats as a Party

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

I can't read german - but I get the gist of what your saying on here. The key here is that this isn't just Obama - this is more Reid and Pelosi actually - the President is just the voice pushing - they are the power pushing.

Whats amazing is that you indicate that "the politics of personal destruction" is new for American politics. Its not - not by a long shot.

Pretty much refer back to Reagan. From that time forward, there has been some type of personal destruction attempts. Bush senior escaped a major one, mainly because the Dems failed to bring down Reagan with Iran/Contra. That was the first big push. Then you had the Reps trying the same with Clinton over Lewinsky and real estate deals. Then the Dems tried again with Bush using the war, 9/11 whacko theories, etc.

Honestly, there has not been a push to attack Obama to bring him down, what has occured has been simply a debate over what this country needs regarding health care. Just because the majority of media wants to make it about their annointed one instead of that fact that MOST voters oppose this plan, is just another example of how the majority of media is a willing tool of the left.

the first really major piece of mud thrown within the timeframe you mention was Watergate, and Republican Nixon. The next major coup was Republican Reagan arranging a secret hostage deal with Iran to crush Carter. Next, Iran/Contra was not a mudball thrown by the Democrats - but a mudball resulting from the secret weapons deals that the Republican-owned White House must have known of, and the massive selling of drugs in the US with assistance by the CIA (so that the Contras got an income to pay for the US weapons). And then there were the court-callings and voting irregularities during Republican Bush junior'S two elections, and the treason of the republican government to start the long-before wanted Iraq war. - Some of these things imo border to high treason against the nation - maybe not by the word of the law, but by moral assessment and content.

Compared to that, the democratic presidents' misdemeanors of that timeframe are almost cosmetic in nature. Kennedy and Ford and the engagement in Vietnam cannot be counted here. It may be seen as a misled policy, a questionable political assessement and strategy - but no intentional cheating.

Eisenhower with his farewell speech - I often wondered if he really knew how tragically visionary he was.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Skybird

For a change, see how the internal American civil war II about Obama's health care plans is perceived from some other civilised places in the West. To us, it looks like a dirty war both by regional politicians and republicans in general in order to damage the president - no matter the cost, and - pure hysteria. This German article describes the impression it leaves with us over here. It's a mud-throwing like I have not seen any since longer time.

Not since, say...the last President?

Honestly, how can the people who foamed at the mouth over every move Bush made not see the parallel?

[August]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Not since, say...the last President?

Honestly, how can the people who foamed at the mouth over every move Bush made not see the parallel?

Because they are hypocrites mostly imo.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by August

Because they are hypocrites mostly imo.

Oh, but that works nicely in both directions.
All those who couldn't hear the whining about Bush anymore are now the ones waging a crusade against Obama for each and every decision he makes.

[August]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Oh, but that works nicely in both directions.
All those who couldn't hear the whining about Bush anymore are now the ones waging a crusade against Obama for each and every decision he makes.

We have a saying in my country: "Payback is a b*tch". It's what worries me more than anything else because unless it is stopped it has the power tear the country apart.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Skybird

For a change, see how the internal American civil war II about Obama's health care plans is perceived from some other civilised places in the West.

At least thats how its portrayed. Once again the mainstream media gets it wrong.

They are trying their best to make this a race issue when it is not but it doesent matter because it helps to divert attention from the real issue.

[mookiemookie]

Oh the irony...it hurts....

Protesters are demanding justice for a man [who was protesting the health care plan] who was injured during fighting that erupted last week when audience members at a St. Louis-area aging forum began yelling about health care reform.

...

Brown told the crowd that Gladney is accepting donations toward his medical expenses. Gladney told reporters he was laid off recently and has no health insurance.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/polit...y/1373035.html

[GoldenRivet]

question is: where does he work now? anywhere?

i promise you that if i were to be fired today - i would have a sutiable replacement job by the end of the week.

most likely with medical and dental benefits.

the problem with folks who get laid off from a plant job in St. Louis - many of them sit in St. Louis twiddling their thumbs.

when the normal thing to do is to move someplace where there is work.

but what if you dont have a single dime????

yard sale.

sell off everything you own that you dont need and get out of the town which is host to a dried up local economy.

the money you raise should be enough to buy enough gas to get you well into the next state or two.

[Skybird]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8194498.stm

[August]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

the money you raise should be enough to buy enough gas to get you well into the next state or two.

First off for most people it just isn't that easy to pick up and move like that. What about family responsibilities? Should an out of work guy just abandon his aged parents or worse, his wife and kids and go off and seek his fortune elsewhere?

Second, not everyone as marketable as you. Even if they hit the road an over 50 former factory worker would not have an easy time picking up a job in normal times, let alone in this economy.

Finally if everyone followed your advice then guess what would happen to the availability of jobs in the areas they move to?

I think while some movement of workers to jobs isn't a problem the last thing we want is to have huge masses of increasingly desperate out of work people traveling around the country chasing phantom job rumors, ala the Great Depression.

[heartc]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Everything in there - including the conclusions of the comentator - is the total truth. In Germany, it is by far not as bad as it seems to be in Canada - but it's deteriorating and the underlying problems are the same. Also, the bottom line the guy draws is totally correct and reality here as well: With a state-run healthcare program, the "rich" people (doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc) will end up enjoying private health insurance, while the other people cannot afford it and must rely on a state-run system and PAY for it REGARDLESS if it works or not (or to what degree). Total truth. And it is also true that these days there are considerations to move AWAY from that system, because the state has difficulties with keeping it running. Until now however, moving "away" from it only means things like when you visit a public doctor these days, for the visit - which you already paid for with your mandatory social contributions into the public healthcare system - you also have to put down an extra 10 EUR cash now. That's healthcare reform, government style. I think you also have to partly pay for some drugs by yourself now, but I'm not sure about that, since I rarely ever visit a doc. Frankly, when I really need a drug, I just go to the local apothecary and pay 100% by myself, because I can't be arsed to visit the doc at ridiculous hours when normal people have to work, just to wait for hours and possibly get infected with all kinds of viruses flying around there, just to get some painkillers or whatever.

I always have to laugh when people tell me how great we have it with our state-run health-care system while in ruthlessly capitalist America people are dieing in the streets because they have no state-run health care. Right.

[heartc]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Oh, but that works nicely in both directions.
All those who couldn't hear the whining about Bush anymore are now the ones waging a crusade against Obama for each and every decision he makes.

Well, I get the impression that those who are whining the most that Obama is put under pressure now are those who were chastising Bush for 8 years the loudest.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by heartc

Well, I get the impression that those who are whining the most that Obama is put under pressure now are those who were chastising Bush for 8 years the loudest.

That is why it goes in both directions.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by heartc

Well, I get the impression that those who are whining the most that Obama is put under pressure now are those who were chastising Bush for 8 years the loudest.

Agreed. It would be nice to have a debate about the issue without all the hyperbole, both the delusional noise we were bombarded with from the left about Bush = Hitler and now the screeching from the right that Obama = Marx.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Agreed. It would be nice to have a debate about the issue without all the hyperbole, both the delusional noise we were bombarded with from the left about Bush = Hitler and now the screeching from the right that Obama = Marx.

I doubt that will ever happen, what with the fact that the vast majority of people have decided that it's better to simply be told what to think rather than thinking for themselves.

I suppose some people view it as much easier to pick their leaders abdicate all thinking to said leaders.