Wondering what your habits are...

[stormbird]

At the moment i am playing with the realism turned down a fair bit (have done this to have the range to 'explore').

So i make a b line straight for the patrol area usually at x500 or x1000 where i then get the patrol out of the way. i usually just set up a zigzag and cross section in the patrol area and set the x256 then all i do is watch the clock at every hour i dive to 30m have a quick listen then surface and continue.

As soon as patrol task is done i head straight for where ever i want to explore (at the moment am exploring jap mainland harbors) as i get closer to japan i once again start diving every hour to listen. When aircraft start gettin to much of a problem i spend all day submerged (with a few surface runs to recharge and replenish oxygen) and all night on the surface.

The key to doing this in never report back to base, if you report back after completing the patrol they will give you another task and another and another making you spend time bouncing around the empty seas off indonesia and the philippines. Sailing to Japan is heaps more profitable you can always report in when almost out of torps and get one last patrol for on the way home.

[MonTana_Prussian]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Sounds great, but it's wrong. Otherwise Fluckey would have operated this way. He didn't. By maintaining 10 knot surface speed, you search many times more square miles of ocean surface in a given time than you can at dead slow underwater listening with sonar. The number of targets you find is directly proportional to the number of square miles you search in a given time.

It's just a numbers game, but it's much more involved than how far you can see to the horizon. Fluckey figured he could search 10 times the area of ostriches just with visual high periscope technique on the surface and NOT using the radar at all. Considering his results compared to other sub captains in the mid 1944 to end of war era, I believe him.

Totally agree RR. I never seach sumerged,even before I have radar,as you said,you can cover so much more ocean on the surface more efficiently.

[vanjast]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Sounds great, but it's wrong. Otherwise Fluckey would have operated this way. He didn't. By maintaining 10 knot surface speed, you search many times more square miles of ocean surface in a given time than you can at dead slow underwater listening with sonar. The number of targets you find is directly proportional to the number of square miles you search in a given time.

Kind Sir!.. I must interject...and disagree...
My 3 day 'spending spree' below is from sitting in one place and listening at 200 ft when not active.

[Rockin Robbins]

Careful, vanjast. I'm not saying that your way will never produce results. I'm saying that all things being equal and easy three to ten times more targets are developed using the yo-yo technique.

Sure, if you submerge in a choke point and listen for three days you will develop some targets. But look at your disadvantage. You've spent lots of your battery wasting energy. When the battle comes, you are already disadvantaged. You have less endurance underwater and you are slowed down on the surface because your batteries aren't charged up. You will also double your fuel consumption for no gain.

However, having developed the same target with yo-yo, my batteries are fully charged, I can go 20 knots or more on the surface and have max endurance and speed underwater. My sub is much more combat ready than yours, and it's that way 100% of the time.

None of this is my idea. It's all from Capt. Eugene Fluckey of the USS Barb. He didn't even START his career until the middle of 1944. He's #3 on the all time tonnage list with 96,628 tons, all his tonnage coming from a time period when the majority of the boats were ostriches, returning to base empty handed except for a load of unused torpedoes. I'll follow his plan any day!

[squadldr76]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Careful, vanjast. I'm not saying that your way will never produce results. I'm saying that all things being equal and easy three to ten times more targets are developed using the yo-yo technique.

So, I suppose my next question here would be "what effective search patterns are there and what do they look like?" By a yo-yo pattern, I'm assuming you mean going back and forth, right? What sort of distance would your main and connecting legs be? And are there other effective patterns too?

I've always waffled back and forth about what distances I should use.

[vanjast]

I'd knew you'd be back ... Just having fun!!

Actually battery wastage is not more than about 8% for a whole days submergence, and during the night being on the surface for a few hours tops this up.

Diesel usage for recharging I take as an equivalent to travelling around at 2 knots on the surface, as one loses 2 knots off the top end. I haven't tested this but I don't think this diesel usage would be the equivalent of standard speed.

If a target is picked up on sonar then it's surface and get into position, During this surface run the batteries are recharged to about 95% (or higher depending on the situation) which is more than enough power to escape.

My (Captain Kirk's) patrol methods (soon to be in hard cover) is that I'm going to use diesel whether I'm running around on the surface, or for a lot of recharging. Either method requires optimisations to increase the range and effectiveness.
Book Title >> 'Captain Kirk - He goes where few dare to go'... (The Heads )

[magic452]

@ Squadldr76
Yo-Yo is a patrol method where you stay on the surface at 9 or 10 kns. and only dive when necessary to avoid planes and surface as soon as possible. If your playing TMO go to 180 feet as the evil planes can see you at less sometimes. If the planes are too frequent than I will stay under longer at 1 kn. This is more common in stock and I play TMO.

Ostriches patrol submerged during the day and use sonar to find targets,
they do this to avoid airplanes.

I agree with Rocken Robins about the yo-yo method, cover as much area as you can but not waste fuel, charging batts uses a lot of fuel.

As for search patterns. Early war I use a "Z" shaped 45° zig zag pattern across a shipping lane, I make each leg about one hour @ 10kns. and do a manual sound check at the end of each leg. You can hear far more ships than your sound man can. I have found lots of good targets that my sound man would have missed. I have had great success with this method. Feb. 1942 patrol with 73,000 tons (2 CVs) and two torpedoes left.

Once you get surface search radar than you can forget the sound checks and rely on radar. You can also stretch out your zig zag pattern to 5 or 10 miles. Hope this helps

Magic

[vanjast]

Both methods have their merits, but a lot of things are probably not modelled.

The way I see it (the pro-hydrophone lobby ):
- covering a large area is no guarantee of meeting a large number of ships.
- Waiting submerged also doesn't guarantee this, but more fuel is conserved
- Choosing the right area to patrol or wait while submerged helps - it's a law of averages.
- ASW aircraft crew used binocs, the same as the ship/sub crews - They can see you if you can see them. Being on the surface and spotted would encourage a sub hunt (not in the game)
- radar is line of sight and only has the advantage in bad weather.
- Passive sonar is just as good as radar for the surface ranges concerned, if not better.
- The obvious advantage radar holds is in detecting aircraft.
- The main radar disadvantage, as with active sonar, is the emmision of detectable signals. (Uboats used radar detection to avoid ASW).

AND of course, last but not least, a subs biggest weapon then as it is still today, is stealth - why throw this weapon away by 'advertising' to your enemy.

You move in undetected, hit hard, and run like hell.

There you go.

[MonTana_Prussian]

<You move in undetected, hit hard, and run like hell.>

True enough,but this can be accomplished on the surface as well,submerging to make the final approach

[vanjast]

True.... many ways to 'skin a cat'.

I think although people advocate different methods, one uses a combination of all ideas, detemined by the current situation.
The end result being much the same.

[Snorkle]

Ehrm... playing stock 1.4, there are contacts galore. In my experience, I'm almost always shot of torps and shells way before I reach the patrol area unless I discipline myself not to examine every lead. Too many ships, too few torps! I scored 110K worth of maru's in one mission and ended up having to make huge detours around more comers.

And if I sit perfectly still somewhere I will still be served a healthy platter unless I'm totally out in the sticks.

BTW, where do I find TMO, RFB, RSRD et al and do they apply to 1.4?
NM, I found the download section. Still need to know whether these popular mods apply to 1.4?

[vanjast]

I think you can call my method the 'Bugs Bunny' method...

I sit for a day or 2, surfacing to replenish air, etc.. - If there is no action, move on about 50-100Nm and do the same again.

The idea is to find a choke point, even if it means sitting outside a port. the game is not intelligent enough to localise 'danger areas', so one can get away with this. Once you find a good point, 'milk' it for all it's worth.

RR should be here any moment to discuss his preferred method.

Both have their merits, and most probably a combination of both would be the best deal.

[Rockin Robbins]

Vanjast jigs, I troll.