Galveston mayor visits Cuba

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I thought Castro was old now and had stepped aside for his younger brother Raul......or is this just a smokescreen?

http://www.economist.com/world/ameri...ry_id=13518718

Its up for debate, some even say Castro is dead and they have a body double in his place. Cubans are big on conspiracys.

At any rate whatever Raul said to the administration evidently was 'mis interperted' according to Fidel.

Fidel while aged and frail still pulls the strings.

[Max2147]

The US trade embargo on Cuba predates the Cuban Missile Crisis. The embargo was put in place in February, the Crisis didn't happen until October.

The travel restrictions followed in 1963. All those policies were Presidential directives until 1992, when Congress passed them into law. The restrictions were reinforced in 1996 after the Brothers to the Rescue shootdown.

The naval blockade during the Cuban Missile Crisis was completely different. It was brief and was lifted after the Crisis ended.

The trade embargo and other restrictions have been huge failures. The goal was to get Castro out of power. In fact, they've helped keep Castro in power for all these years. It allowed Castro and friends to blame any problems in Cuba on the US embargo, thus keeping people blind to the flaws in the socialist system.

If we lift the embargo and the travel restrictions, socialism in Cuba will disappear within a couple years. Cubans will be flooded with American goods and rich American tourists, and the lies they've been told about the superiority of socialism will be exposed. The only way the Castro clique will stay in power is if they morph Cuba into a socialist in name only country like China.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

Yeah, but the Embargo we are talking about now just applies to trade inbetween Cuba and the US, it's not a complete cut off from the rest of the world like at the times of the crisis. Insofar I always wondered about the usefulness of this embargo anyways, it beeing more a principle then a problem solving or pratical measure. Disliking Castro and detaining communism is more then understandable in my book, but one should have thought it has to go hand in hand with a plan for future action based on possible outcomes.

This, however, has never been done, at least not in a proportion that I heared about it, yet. It appears to be a measure taken out of the circumstances back then and just carried over because nobody ever really thought about what to do next. To just sit it out until Castro dies and communism hopefully with him does not make the impression of a seriously thought out plan to bring this conflict to an end. At latest when the USSR collapsed this thought process could have started.

Insofar I do not see any harm in opening up to Cuba, really. It's a place in dire need of modernisation and investments, it's a win win, really. And if things go wrong after all, for some reason, the US surely is large and powerful enough to respond in kind before Cuba becomes dangerous in whatever regard.

You pretty much covered it. The one sentence you wrote concerning possible future outcome, etc. Sometimes I wonder if a few Presidents look beyond the 4 years of their tenure. Those that don't only look to th end of their term as the only future concerning them. Although this is hard to examine as JFK did not finish his 4 years. Who knows what JFK would have done in his last year as president or another 4 more years if elected and he was not assassinated. Only conjecture. At this point, you are correct, embargos for Cuba are useless.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I thought Castro was old now and had stepped aside for his younger brother Raul......or is this just a smokescreen?

http://www.economist.com/world/ameri...ry_id=13518718

I guess a bit of both. Most think Castro is dead and this is a darn good stand in. Who really knows.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Max2147

The US trade embargo on Cuba predates the Cuban Missile Crisis. The embargo was put in place in February, the Crisis didn't happen until October.

The travel restrictions followed in 1963. All those policies were Presidential directives until 1992, when Congress passed them into law. The restrictions were reinforced in 1996 after the Brothers to the Rescue shootdown.

The naval blockade during the Cuban Missile Crisis was completely different. It was brief and was lifted after the Crisis ended.

The trade embargo and other restrictions have been huge failures. The goal was to get Castro out of power. In fact, they've helped keep Castro in power for all these years. It allowed Castro and friends to blame any problems in Cuba on the US embargo, thus keeping people blind to the flaws in the socialist system.

If we lift the embargo and the travel restrictions, socialism in Cuba will disappear within a couple years. Cubans will be flooded with American goods and rich American tourists, and the lies they've been told about the superiority of socialism will be exposed. The only way the Castro clique will stay in power is if they morph Cuba into a socialist in name only country like China.

The travel restriction stemmed from the Bay of Pigs deal?

[Max2147]

It's hard to say that X led to Y led to Z.

The chronology, for what it's worth, was:

April 1961: Bay of Pigs
February 1962: Economic embargo
October 1962: Cuban Missile Crisis
February 1963: Travel restrictions, Cuban assets in US frozen

Again, it's hard to say that one event led directly to another. I think the bigger issue is that the Cuban American population in Florida was making a lot of noise around that time. One of the biggest changes today is that there's a new generation of Cuban Americans that have never been to Cuba and don't have the memory of fleeing Castro.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Max2147

It's hard to say that X led to Y led to Z.

The chronology, for what it's worth, was:

April 1961: Bay of Pigs
February 1962: Economic embargo
October 1962: Cuban Missile Crisis
February 1963: Travel restrictions, Cuban assets in US frozen

Again, it's hard to say that one event led directly to another. I think the bigger issue is that the Cuban American population in Florida was making a lot of noise around that time. One of the biggest changes today is that there's a new generation of Cuban Americans that have never been to Cuba and don't have the memory of fleeing Castro.

Good point! I have to agree with Beowolf also, what, if any, is Cuba a threat to the US? Not much. We will see happens. Again, I see nothing wrong with lightening up a bit. It kinds of feels like they have been in the 'time out chair' long enough. Most of this is not really fresh in my mind. I was born in 1965. I just grew up with the understanding Cuba is run by a dictator who is chummy with the Russians. There was some nukes parked off our shores and Cuba is going to get what is coming to them. Time moves on though.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I guess a bit of both. Most think Castro is dead and this is a darn good stand in. Who really knows.

Probably only old Fidel

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Probably only old Fidel

I suspect it is Fidel. A lot of speculation on this. Every picture I see it sure looks like Fidel. Been looking at the guy for a long time. I think the Cuban cigars have a special fountain of youth in them.

[Jimbuna]

[Tchocky]

*mentions missiles in Turkey*

[AVGWarhawk]

George Burns, cigar smoker. Made to 100 years old. Sumpin in dem ceegars.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

*mentions missiles in Turkey*

What missiles? We ain't seen no missiles in Turkey.

[Jimbuna]

Well apparently someone did

http://tvotw.com/0192_10_12_1962.htm

[AVGWarhawk]

What missiles? We don't no nutt'in about no stink'in missiles