Some pics from the Nato exercise in Norway - Page 3

August · 03-21-09, 01:05 PM

I drove one of these for two years in the late 1970's. I wish i had one up at the camp!

Schroeder · 03-21-09, 02:30 PM

This is the first time I hear that someone likes the M113.

In the German army most people (especially the drivers and mechanics) did not have a high opinion of that thing.

03-22-09, 06:08 AM

A German helicopter has crashed in the military exercise, no casualties. Saw about this in the Finnish media, can't find an English link about it.

August · 03-22-09, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

This is the first time I hear that someone likes the M113.

In the German army most people (especially the drivers and mechanics) did not have a high opinion of that thing.

Well it is a 40 year old design and i don't recall any particular flaws, except that it couldn't stop a bullet.

antikristuseke · 03-22-09, 08:53 AM

Not being able to stop bullets is something id concider a flaw when it comes to APC's.

UnderseaLcpl · 03-22-09, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Well it is a 40 year old design and i don't recall any particular flaws, except that it couldn't stop a bullet.

That was just one problem. In addition to the boxy shape of the M113 causing many right-angle impacts, it also suffered from "spalling". That is, pieces of the interior breaking off and turning into lethal shrapnel when the aluminum armor was struck.
The M113 doesn't really fill a needed battlefield role, imo. It is too weak to be an IFV, and too inefficient to be a transport.

edit- fixed designation, my bad

Schroeder · 03-22-09, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

That was just one problem. In addition to the boxy shape of the M117 causing many right-angle impacts, it also suffered from "spalling". That is, pieces of the interior breaking off and turning into lethal shrapnel when the aluminum armor was struck.
The M117 doesn't really fill a needed battlefield role, imo. It is too weak to be an IFV, and too inefficient to be a transport.

Isn't that thing called M113?

Raptor1 · 03-22-09, 12:47 PM

I do believe he was talking about the M113

Don't think there is an M117 APC

Oberon · 03-22-09, 12:54 PM

I didn't know that NATO was still using the old shoebox, good to see it still going

I thought vehicles like the Hummer and Bradley would have taken over its role by now. I mean, compared to the BTR-70 the armour was better IIRC, although obviously as the BTR series got on I dare say things were improved, by which time the Bradley had come in.
For something to have lasted since the 1960s, well, it mustn't be that bad

Surely?

Morts · 03-22-09, 01:53 PM

actually i think its mostly the danes using the M113 and that is a M113 in danish service pictured there

Platapus · 03-22-09, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

I drove one of these for two years in the late 1970's. I wish i had one up at the camp!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

This is the first time I hear that someone likes the M113.

In the German army most people (especially the drivers and mechanics) did not have a high opinion of that thing.

Schroeder,

I don't think that is a M-113 APC in that picture. At least it does not look like the 113's I drove. M-113's have five road wheels and a rubber skirt covering the treads on the upper side.

So what is that APC in the picture?

Could this be the XM546E1? But that was a proposed design for the MIM-46 though.

There are not that many APCs with six road wheels and many of them are Chinese and Russian

Schroeder · 03-22-09, 04:48 PM

Hm, you are right the M113 has only 5 road wheels....

August · 03-22-09, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Schroeder,

I don't think that is a M-113 APC in that picture. At least it does not look like the 113's I drove. M-113's have five road wheels and a rubber skirt covering the treads on the upper side.

So what is that APC in the picture?

Could this be the XM546E1? But that was a proposed design for the MIM-46 though.

There are not that many APCs with six road wheels and many of them are Chinese and Russian

The rubber skirt was removable. You can see the row of bolts along the edge where it bolts on, but you're right. It does have an extra road wheel! It's like a stretched version of the 113. There's also a couple square protrusions in the front that I don't remember seeing on the 113.

Of course it's been 30 years since I last sat in one...

August · 03-22-09, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

Not being able to stop bullets is something id concider a flaw when it comes to APC's.

Well in all fairness, it wasn't designed to stop bullets. It's an APC, not an AFV, and it did offer a heckuva lot more protection from shrapnel than the trucks and half tracks it was designed to replace.

stabiz · 03-22-09, 07:45 PM

More pics:

The Government impose new and drastic counter measures to speeding:rotfl:

The German chopper that crashed:

03-21-09, 01:05 PM	#31
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 22,730 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I drove one of these for two years in the late 1970's. I wish i had one up at the camp! __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

03-21-09, 02:30 PM	#32
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	This is the first time I hear that someone likes the M113. In the German army most people (especially the drivers and mechanics) did not have a high opinion of that thing. __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

03-22-09, 12:47 PM	#38
Raptor1 Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Stavka Posts: 8,211 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	I do believe he was talking about the M113 Don't think there is an M117 APC __________________ Current Eastern Front status: Probable Victory

03-22-09, 04:48 PM	#42
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	Hm, you are right the M113 has only 5 road wheels.... __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

03-22-09, 07:45 PM	#45
stabiz Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 4,224 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	More pics: The Government impose new and drastic counter measures to speeding:rotfl: The German chopper that crashed: __________________

03-22-09, 06:08 AM	#33
OneToughHerring Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	A German helicopter has crashed in the military exercise, no casualties. Saw about this in the Finnish media, can't find an English link about it.

03-22-09, 08:53 AM	#35
antikristuseke Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Estland Posts: 4,330 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Not being able to stop bullets is something id concider a flaw when it comes to APC's.

03-22-09, 12:54 PM	#39
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	I didn't know that NATO was still using the old shoebox, good to see it still going I thought vehicles like the Hummer and Bradley would have taken over its role by now. I mean, compared to the BTR-70 the armour was better IIRC, although obviously as the BTR series got on I dare say things were improved, by which time the Bradley had come in. For something to have lasted since the 1960s, well, it mustn't be that bad Surely?

03-22-09, 01:53 PM	#40
Morts Admiral Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,395 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	actually i think its mostly the danes using the M113 and that is a M113 in danish service pictured there