Please give suggestions for Realism - Page 3

gigel_escu · 03-09-09, 04:33 PM

Of course first thing you can reduce the number of ships or randomize their routes on chart, maybe it is hard (programming I mean). I know a little bit of programming and I think it is very hard or the SH make 10 GB n HDD and took 3 days only for load the mission. It is annoying when I must patrol EG87 an example, and the most convoys and naval traffic are in DS15 or DG47. Of course you can divert you route, you don't take the striaght course on the patrol area (in real most uboats go in straight course, because of sortage of fuel), but its is quite impossible to find a convoy outside of convoys routes. Normally tou can find a struggler or something.

In the other hand, I had read somewhere here that the "damage meter" that percent who indicates the damage level of the sub was deleted because some wise guys do that or do bla bla. That is a stupid idea, I am very angry. In middle of 1942 with VIIC in mission on Venezuelean coast (why so far away) I was damage by a Hudson an Avenger almost dead in the water, not very hard flooding or something. I reload the saved game, I met few Hudson who make damage, flooding (about 5 minutes, the boat went down uncontrollable until 120 m), attack periscope destroyed and few damage not critical. I arrived in Lorient and surprise 76% damage, in conclusion not so hard. I don't know the real damage status, I don't understand what "hull damage" means, my CE officer indications not readeble (I played with English subtitles and German speak). Not important, but I must know about my sub are heavy, medium or light damage. I image Erich Topp asked his chief engineer about damage and chief engineer answered: "Her Topp it is a secret I will tell you in the base". Get serious.

Another stupid thing, in WW2 you hadn't be officer to maned a AA gun on the submarnes. At my type VIIC with type 2 connig tower with 2 AA's I must to put 2 officer at the gun, I put 1 just one guns shots, I put 2 sailor man no gaun shots. That is f.... stupid, who think that guys he or she can try that

.

Otto Heinzmeir · 03-09-09, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gigel_escu

In the other hand, I had read somewhere here that the "damage meter" that percent who indicates the damage level of the sub was deleted because some wise guys do that or do bla bla. That is a stupid idea, I am very angry. In middle of 1942 with VIIC in mission on Venezuelean coast (why so far away) I was damage by a Hudson an Avenger almost dead in the water, not very hard flooding or something. I reload the saved game, I met few Hudson who make damage, flooding (about 5 minutes, the boat went down uncontrollable until 120 m), attack periscope destroyed and few damage not critical. I arrived in Lorient and surprise 76% damage, in conclusion not so hard. I don't know the real damage status, I don't understand what "hull damage" means, my CE officer indications not readeble (I played with English subtitles and German speak). Not important, but I must know about my sub are heavy, medium or light damage. I image Erich Topp asked his chief engineer about damage and chief engineer answered: "Her Topp it is a secret I will tell you in the base". Get serious.

If I understand you correctly your playing one of the mods that doesn't show hull integrity? The SH3 Commander program has an option that allows you to show hull intergrity. You just check the option and your %damage will appear again. I like to have the % show because there is no way in game to inspect your damage.

gigel_escu · 03-10-09, 11:06 AM

And that option is??

Sailor Steve · 03-10-09, 11:35 AM

'Show/Hide Hull Integrity'.

mookiemookie · 03-10-09, 12:35 PM

Another suggestion for realism: when reloading external reloads, only do it in fair weather and relatively calm seas at slow speed. No diving while reloading either. In other words, if you see a plane, you're screwed.

gigel_escu · 03-10-09, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

'Show/Hide Hull Integrity'.

Gotcha Einstein, but I don't have the mod

Sailor Steve · 03-10-09, 03:50 PM

:rotfl:

Okay, you win. You do need SH3 Commander, for that but also for a dozen other reasons, all of them good. The fact that when you sink a merchant it gives it a name is among them.

Also the ability to adjust many of the parameters in the game with a single mouse click. The ability to edit and write your own patrol reports. Realistic crew transfers. Realistic career length. Malfunctions and sabotage aboard your boat if you want it. Randomized gramophone songs. Randomized loading screens.

Randomized anything you want to add in.

It's the ultimate tool for SH3. Period.

gigel_escu · 03-11-09, 04:16 PM

Yep. You sayed brother, good point

Thanks

Schöneboom · 03-12-09, 11:07 PM

To bump up realism, I ignore single ship reports, and convoy reports, too, when the weather's rotten (it never improves by the time I make contact anyway). In addition, my submerged shots are with manual targeting, the "notepad" version. I usually shoot anywhere from 1000 - 3000 meters. As the miss rate increases, the eels get used up sooner.

Even so, on my latest patrol in 1942, I bagged 8 ships, which is rather a lot for a month's work. I don't expect that kind of tonnage for much longer. Now I gotta admit, if I really want to make it harder, the first thing to do is never return to previous saves when the current attack goes awry. This is distinct from the DID approach, in that I'm not referring to impending doom or actual game death, but just when things don't go according to plan. "No going back" is really key, I think; that means, once the attack starts, don't go back, and don't save again till after you've disengaged (the enemy is out of range). If you're alive, and the boat still floats, keep going forward, never back.

Sailor Steve · 03-13-09, 12:44 PM

I think GWX reduces the 'Range To Opportunity Targets' in the Main.cfg by a bit, but it can be reduced further. A long time ago there was a mod that reduced the number of single ships by 80% and then reduced the number of reports on them by 80%, making it very unlikely to encounter single ships in the game. Unfortunately the author had to change each individual ship, and with several dozen new ships in the game since then it doesn't work anymore.

Me, I never chase down any single-ship report, on the assumption that they came from an unreal source anyway.

unterseemann · 03-14-09, 12:45 PM

For more realism i think of two solutions:
-You should fire 2 or 3 torpedoes for valuable ships like tankers or big freighters over 6.000 tons to ensure success.
-Someone should lower the tonnage of each ship because it's way too high in SH3 vs RL ( just look at uboat.net : ships sunk over 6.000 tons are not so often and sometimes they are only damaged)

Sailor Steve · 03-14-09, 01:12 PM

Unfortunately just lowering the tonnage of each ship in the game would also be unrealistic. The Liberty ships really were registered at 7176-7255 tons. The T2 tanker really was 10,500 tons. The problem is having so many appear in the game. Fixing it is a real job.

Otto Heinzmeir · 03-14-09, 06:37 PM

There are maybe too many high ton ships, though looking at the top ace's stats from his type VIIb missions he had a lot of high ton ships. His last patrol was 70k+ tons and he had several 10k ton or higher ships in that one. In his last 5 missions almost all the ships were 5,000 tons or higher. Of course he isn't the norm, because he was the top ace and these missions were in 1940, when tonnage totals were at there highest. I may have to see if I can figure out the average ship tonnage would have been.

The tonnage per ship for typeIIA's is quite small. There range prevented them from getting patrols along the Western side of the UK or the Atlantic. Lots more coastel vessels and trawlers.

I think the biggest problems with excess tonnage in game occur early on in 1939, when its just too easy to rack up 40 tons or higher on helpless merchants in a typeVIIB. This is where its also noticeable that you come across a lot of 6K to 10K single ships. I find that I can't let them go though, doesn't seem realistic either to say will its too big I won't sink her. I get around this whole situation by starting with a typeIIA for 6 to 8 missions.

Otto Heinzmeir · 03-14-09, 08:14 PM

That uboat.net site is amazing. They have all the u-boat attacks analyzed. So just doing simple math with the numbers there gives an average tonnage of 4,875.9 per ship sunk. A higher number than I realized.

timmyab · 03-14-09, 11:43 PM

I do a few things to handicap myself.Firstly I have to spend two weeks in my assigned patrol grid, after that I can patrol all of the adjacent squares, so 9 in total.The problem with radio contacts is that the ships are far too easily intercepted.In real life ships would change course more often and the radio reports wouldn't be so accurate in the first place.To simulate this I ignore 3/4 of interceptable contacts.I do this radomly by tossing a coin twice.Visual contacts I ignore 1/2 the time including convoys.If I get a hydrophone contact I ignore it untill it becomes visable although I do watch the horizon for it, just not altering speed or course.I have to attack on the surface at night and I can't attack if the wind speed is 15m/s.Opportunities to sink capital ships are far too common so again I ignore 3/4 of them.I don't allow myself to target destroyers at all.I do use the deck gun but only in a flat calm and it's not nearly such a powerful weopen in gwx anyway.
The combination of all this slows me down quite a bit but makes the ships I do sink that much more memorable.

03-09-09, 04:33 PM	#31
gigel_escu Watch Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 15 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Of course first thing you can reduce the number of ships or randomize their routes on chart, maybe it is hard (programming I mean). I know a little bit of programming and I think it is very hard or the SH make 10 GB n HDD and took 3 days only for load the mission. It is annoying when I must patrol EG87 an example, and the most convoys and naval traffic are in DS15 or DG47. Of course you can divert you route, you don't take the striaght course on the patrol area (in real most uboats go in straight course, because of sortage of fuel), but its is quite impossible to find a convoy outside of convoys routes. Normally tou can find a struggler or something. In the other hand, I had read somewhere here that the "damage meter" that percent who indicates the damage level of the sub was deleted because some wise guys do that or do bla bla. That is a stupid idea, I am very angry. In middle of 1942 with VIIC in mission on Venezuelean coast (why so far away) I was damage by a Hudson an Avenger almost dead in the water, not very hard flooding or something. I reload the saved game, I met few Hudson who make damage, flooding (about 5 minutes, the boat went down uncontrollable until 120 m), attack periscope destroyed and few damage not critical. I arrived in Lorient and surprise 76% damage, in conclusion not so hard. I don't know the real damage status, I don't understand what "hull damage" means, my CE officer indications not readeble (I played with English subtitles and German speak). Not important, but I must know about my sub are heavy, medium or light damage. I image Erich Topp asked his chief engineer about damage and chief engineer answered: "Her Topp it is a secret I will tell you in the base". Get serious. Another stupid thing, in WW2 you hadn't be officer to maned a AA gun on the submarnes. At my type VIIC with type 2 connig tower with 2 AA's I must to put 2 officer at the gun, I put 1 just one guns shots, I put 2 sailor man no gaun shots. That is f.... stupid, who think that guys he or she can try that.

03-10-09, 11:35 AM	#34
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	'Show/Hide Hull Integrity'. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-10-09, 12:35 PM	#35
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	Another suggestion for realism: when reloading external reloads, only do it in fair weather and relatively calm seas at slow speed. No diving while reloading either. In other words, if you see a plane, you're screwed. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

03-10-09, 03:50 PM	#37
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	:rotfl: Okay, you win. You do need SH3 Commander, for that but also for a dozen other reasons, all of them good. The fact that when you sink a merchant it gives it a name is among them. Also the ability to adjust many of the parameters in the game with a single mouse click. The ability to edit and write your own patrol reports. Realistic crew transfers. Realistic career length. Malfunctions and sabotage aboard your boat if you want it. Randomized gramophone songs. Randomized loading screens. Randomized anything you want to add in. It's the ultimate tool for SH3. Period. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-12-09, 11:07 PM	#39
Schöneboom Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 651 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	To bump up realism, I ignore single ship reports, and convoy reports, too, when the weather's rotten (it never improves by the time I make contact anyway). In addition, my submerged shots are with manual targeting, the "notepad" version. I usually shoot anywhere from 1000 - 3000 meters. As the miss rate increases, the eels get used up sooner. Even so, on my latest patrol in 1942, I bagged 8 ships, which is rather a lot for a month's work. I don't expect that kind of tonnage for much longer. Now I gotta admit, if I really want to make it harder, the first thing to do is never return to previous saves when the current attack goes awry. This is distinct from the DID approach, in that I'm not referring to impending doom or actual game death, but just when things don't go according to plan. "No going back" is really key, I think; that means, once the attack starts, don't go back, and don't save again till after you've disengaged (the enemy is out of range). If you're alive, and the boat still floats, keep going forward, never back. __________________ Dietrich Schöneboom, U-431 "Es wird klappen, Herr Kaleun. Ganz sicher." Last edited by Schöneboom; 03-12-09 at 11:23 PM.

03-10-09, 11:06 AM	#33
gigel_escu Watch Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 15 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	And that option is??

03-11-09, 04:16 PM	#38
gigel_escu Watch Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 15 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yep. You sayed brother, good point Thanks

03-13-09, 12:44 PM	#40
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I think GWX reduces the 'Range To Opportunity Targets' in the Main.cfg by a bit, but it can be reduced further. A long time ago there was a mod that reduced the number of single ships by 80% and then reduced the number of reports on them by 80%, making it very unlikely to encounter single ships in the game. Unfortunately the author had to change each individual ship, and with several dozen new ships in the game since then it doesn't work anymore. Me, I never chase down any single-ship report, on the assumption that they came from an unreal source anyway. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-14-09, 12:45 PM	#41
unterseemann Soundman Join Date: May 2005 Location: lyon, france Posts: 144 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 0	For more realism i think of two solutions: -You should fire 2 or 3 torpedoes for valuable ships like tankers or big freighters over 6.000 tons to ensure success. -Someone should lower the tonnage of each ship because it's way too high in SH3 vs RL ( just look at uboat.net : ships sunk over 6.000 tons are not so often and sometimes they are only damaged) __________________

03-14-09, 01:12 PM	#42
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Unfortunately just lowering the tonnage of each ship in the game would also be unrealistic. The Liberty ships really were registered at 7176-7255 tons. The T2 tanker really was 10,500 tons. The problem is having so many appear in the game. Fixing it is a real job. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-14-09, 06:37 PM	#43
Otto Heinzmeir Weps Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Wilhelmshaven Local Pub Posts: 361 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	There are maybe too many high ton ships, though looking at the top ace's stats from his type VIIb missions he had a lot of high ton ships. His last patrol was 70k+ tons and he had several 10k ton or higher ships in that one. In his last 5 missions almost all the ships were 5,000 tons or higher. Of course he isn't the norm, because he was the top ace and these missions were in 1940, when tonnage totals were at there highest. I may have to see if I can figure out the average ship tonnage would have been. The tonnage per ship for typeIIA's is quite small. There range prevented them from getting patrols along the Western side of the UK or the Atlantic. Lots more coastel vessels and trawlers. I think the biggest problems with excess tonnage in game occur early on in 1939, when its just too easy to rack up 40 tons or higher on helpless merchants in a typeVIIB. This is where its also noticeable that you come across a lot of 6K to 10K single ships. I find that I can't let them go though, doesn't seem realistic either to say will its too big I won't sink her. I get around this whole situation by starting with a typeIIA for 6 to 8 missions. Last edited by Otto Heinzmeir; 03-14-09 at 06:53 PM.

03-14-09, 08:14 PM	#44
Otto Heinzmeir Weps Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Wilhelmshaven Local Pub Posts: 361 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	That uboat.net site is amazing. They have all the u-boat attacks analyzed. So just doing simple math with the numbers there gives an average tonnage of 4,875.9 per ship sunk. A higher number than I realized.

03-14-09, 11:43 PM	#45
timmyab Watch Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 22 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I do a few things to handicap myself.Firstly I have to spend two weeks in my assigned patrol grid, after that I can patrol all of the adjacent squares, so 9 in total.The problem with radio contacts is that the ships are far too easily intercepted.In real life ships would change course more often and the radio reports wouldn't be so accurate in the first place.To simulate this I ignore 3/4 of interceptable contacts.I do this radomly by tossing a coin twice.Visual contacts I ignore 1/2 the time including convoys.If I get a hydrophone contact I ignore it untill it becomes visable although I do watch the horizon for it, just not altering speed or course.I have to attack on the surface at night and I can't attack if the wind speed is 15m/s.Opportunities to sink capital ships are far too common so again I ignore 3/4 of them.I don't allow myself to target destroyers at all.I do use the deck gun but only in a flat calm and it's not nearly such a powerful weopen in gwx anyway. The combination of all this slows me down quite a bit but makes the ships I do sink that much more memorable.