Merchant ships - how do you see flags at night?

[Sailor Steve]

@ Kuckoo: In the cases of Norway and Spain, I don't know. Maybe they figured those two countries were ripe for the plucking and didn't care what they thought. Maybe they came up with official excuses we haven't seen yet. All I know is that it happened, and there doesn't seem to have been too much of a fuss.

[Kuckoo]

I also have had problems in identifying flags at night. In transit to an Atlantic patrol in October 1939, I came across a merchant travelling NNE in the North Sea around midnight. I moved up quite close to it in the darkness and identified it as an Ore Carrier, but could not make out the flag. Now, as stated somewhere above, I have adjusted my .cfg file to give me credit for sinking neutrals. But even with this, my "house rules" require the neutral to be within 250km of the British coast and on a heading either to or from Britain before I will attack. This ship was too far out and on an ambiguous heading. So I decided to stalk it off its starboard bow until dawn, when I hoped to identify its nationality. I even remembered to cross to the port bow to minimise detection against the rising sun. Despite this, the merchant seemed to spot me before I could identify it, because it started to zig-zag. By now I had convinced myself that it was Norwegian or Danish, and approached it openly to make sure. And as I got closer? Bless my soul!.....it turned out to be British. By now I was very close, and it slowed right down, virtually stopped. Somehow it did not seem right to sink it, but as I looked at it and it looked at me, it got kind of embarrassing.......

......so I sank it with my deck-gun!!!

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Kuckoo

Since sinking neutrals was evidently acceptable to BdU, I have amended the relevant .cfg file, as suggested in another thread. I then play to my own "house rules" to stop me doing anything crass.

Cheaters never prosper!
:rotfl:

I suspect it was my suggestion you saw in that other thread. I changed my 'Renown Awarded' for neutrals to '0'. That way I don't get punished for it, but I don't get any credit either. It just turns into a waste of good torpedoes.

[nikbear]

Welcome aboard ={FH}=Paddy

[Drakken]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Cheaters never prosper!
:rotfl:

I suspect it was my suggestion you saw in that other thread. I changed my 'Renown Awarded' for neutrals to '0'. That way I don't get punished for it, but I don't get any credit either. It just turns into a waste of good torpedoes.

Interesting...

[Task Force]

Ive had a close incounter with the merchent kind in those storms where you cant see past the front of the boat. I once was saining of the cost of norway when out of the fog comes a merchent that slams into me. Never saw it comeing.:rotfl:

[Captain Nemo]

Originally Posted by Captain Nemo

Is this correct regarding the hostilities from the neutral nation you sunk for 24 hours? The reason I ask is because in my haste to sink a Passenger Cargo in June 1940 I didn't notice it was flying the US flag . In my defence, it was pitch black and she was blacked out and sailing towards the English coast. Anyway, since the sinking, on two separate occassions I have seen an Irish Hurricane and me thinking it was a neutral and I was quite safe was astonished to see it dive on me and open fire! Luckily I escaped both attacks without any serious problems, but if what meduza says is correct, I would expect it from a US aircraft/ship but not from the Irish (and I thought they were sympathetic towards the Germans during WWII ).

Nemo

Apologies for bumping this thread back to the top, but any views on my query regarding the sinking of a neutral would be appreciated. It's just that I am a bit puzzled by this one.

Thanks.

Nemo

[Steel_Tomb]

I remember one convoy which only had one DD escorting it, I dispatched that and had free reign over the shipping. I sank 15 ships, without thinking to ID any of them. After I finished I realized that there had been about 5 neutral ships in the pack which I'd taken down lol ...

moral of the story - ALWAYS check the flag!

[Kielhauler1961]

With regards to German-Spanish relations up until 1943, Adolf was providing Franco with essential supplies to help rebuild the shattered Spanish economy. Although not as much as Spain wanted, it made a huge difference. Remember the country was slowly recovering from a catastrophic civil war and didn't have the resourses, capability or enthusiasm for the greater war that Germany wanted to involve it in.

After November 1940, when Franco made it plain to Hitler he wasn't going to get involved unless Britain fell, I guess the gloves came off. Franco was one of the few people who got the better of Adolf in face-to-face exchanges. After one meeting, Hitler told his adjutant "I'd rather have three or four teeth pulled-out than go throught that again!"

Sweden was as all about hard cash and the realities of life. Germany paid in gold for Swedish minerals, so a few unfortunate sinkings here and there were 'excusable'. There was a tacit agreement between them that Sweden would remain 'sovereign' so long as she was helpful to Germany. The transportation of German troops across Swedish territory before Barbarossa being a case in point.

Right from the start, Norway put it's merchant marine at the service of Britain. Norwegian ships were therefore considered fair game as they could be readily assumed to be carrying contraband, especially if in the North Sea. American ships were avoided wherever possible because she was just that bit bigger than Norway, but what they did was even more illegal. Thank God for lend-lease and 'cash & carry', but it was technically against the law at the time! If you doubt me, type 'USS Reuben James' into wikipedia. The only reason I'm here today is because of food aid my mother received from the United States of America (God bless 'em!)

The 'prize rules' of WW1 could not be enforced or expected in the age of modern aircraft, so they were ignored once Hitler realised Britain and France were actually up for a fight.

[Kuckoo]

@ Kielhauler

Very interesting stuff. I agree with you entirely about the USA. It appears Germany only sank US ships inadvertantly. Very good point about US aid to Britain pre December 1941. I echo your sentiments entirely.

You are probably right about Norway, also. Reading accounts of attacks on Norwegian shipping before April 1940, although some seem entirely inexplicable, most appear to have been made on ships en route to or from Britain: the flag of neutrality never saved them. With reference to your reference about Norway's merchant marine being put to the service of Britain, it's probably worth adding that this considerable merchant navy continued in the Allied cause throughout the war, suffering very many losses. Indeed, the Royal Norwegian Navy escaped to Britain and provided, amongst other things, considerable escort contingents in the Battle of the Atlantic - something few of us Brits would realise. In this respect, Norway was never entirely conquered.

I know almost nothing of Spanish history after 1640, so the information you provide is new to me. From what you say, Hitler was on a loser with Franco almost from Day One.

Sweden intrigues me, though. From the little I know, I would agree with the importance of the mineral trade etc. However, if uboat.net is to be believed (and I see no reason why not) the "unfortunate sinkings here and there" added up to eighty-eight before the war ended - two-thirds of these were out of convoy. This started from the first weeks of the war, and resulted in the deaths of many Swedish sailors. Very clumsy from a diplomatic point of view, even by the standards of Nazi Germany!

[Kuckoo]

@ Sailor Steve

Credit where credit is due! Yes, it was your suggestion that I took up. I have taken it one step further though by amending Reknown Awarded to "1" - hence the need for "house rules". These are:

1) ALL merchant ships in a British convoy are "fair game".
2) ALL merchant ships (except American) are "fair game" if doing anything within 50km of the British coast.
3) ALL merchant ships (except American) are "fair game" if with 250km of the British coast and travelling on a heading either to or from Britain.

This is clearly very aggressive by normal game standards, but probably quite mild compared with the recorded activities of the U-boatwaffe. Technically I could stack up a lot of reknown by sinking, on returning to Wilhelmshaven, any neutral shipping I found at anchor! However, if I did that, I would probably never sleep soundly again - and frankly, would not deserve to!

Kuckoo

PS. In addition to benefiting from your "neutrals" suggestion, I also use the "Sailor Steve Sound Mod". Many thanks for making that available, mate. It really adds to the experience!

[Kielhauler1961]

@ Kuckoo,

Check out this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_in_World_War_II

I also posted it in the 'Supply ships' thread so I hope I don't get creamed for double-posting!

I notice your location is S. Wales... You wouldn't happen to be anywhere near The Gnoll would you?

[={FH}=Paddy]

Firstly, thank you all for you kind and warm welcomes. My first patrol in just over a year of land mongering did not quite go as I had hoped and planned.
With a year away my memory seems to have been effected and shortcut keys forgotten as a result! Not to mentioned my reactions to emergencies using the, now over familiar standard gaming keys of “W-A-S-D”, most unhealthy hitting the “D” key in error when in 50m of water! Realizing my fumbling key error I drastically tried to rectify and compensate it by going to periscope depth only to miss hitting the “P” key and sending my self in to a “Hard a’ Port” downward spiral! :rotflespite obvious hull damage I did however manage to survive the inevitable sea floor collision only to be soon pummeled and sunk by three destroyers on DC runs over head. All while trying to ascertain the nationality of outer convoy ships in the dark!!! A most unhealthy exercise!
So a rusty start it was and it is most definitely back to basics for me, I was not even at sea log enough to build up any rust on my hull, let alone the odd barnacle!
One question I do have for you all is, how can one check ones Hull integrity after such a sea floor encounter? In the past I vaguely remember being able to see a “Hull integrity” percentage displayed via the Crew Management screen but this is no more?:hmm:
(Sorry if I am asking questions out of topic context, my advance apologies if this is the case and please let me know either way)
Cheers all – “a disgruntled yet not defeated rusty old Kaleun”!

[sharkbit]

One question I do have for you all is, how can one check ones Hull integrity after such a sea floor encounter? In the past I vaguely remember being able to see a “Hull integrity” percentage displayed via the Crew Management screen but this is no more?:hmm:

Stock had it, GWX did away with that.
However, if you have SH3 Commander, it gives you an option of displaying hull integrity.

[={FH}=Paddy]

Thaks sharkbit for the clarification mate, i just might look in to getting SH3 Commander installed. from what i have read, it is a tasty little nugget to have added. I'm just worried about Mod conflicts at such an early return to the high seas. I'll give it a bash. Thanks again mate.