Anyone useing SH-3 Generator - Page 3

GlobalExplorer · 08-26-08, 04:01 PM

Sh3Gen was internally too complex and using a huge amount of variables (specific for time, theatre, faction, unit, ..). In the end I was never quite sure how it worked (when it comes to randomization). The good thing was that this made it unpredictable for the user.

Right now the TR 2.0 application works without randomization. I found that it's much easier to develop from that. It' a possibility that I add randomization, but later, and of a much much simpler principle. Not that this should matter to the user. The result should be at least the same, and scale better with changes to the variables. Right I rather try to design the output in a way that it can be used without heavy randomization.

Look at my screen to see what I mean.

Screen1 shows just the following: an unknown number of merchants ships, as well as some unidentified naval unit is docked in the port. Patrols cover both entrances. There is also information about the position of coastal batteries as well as some coastal traffic.

Screen 2: other scale, same principle. Colored zone shows where japanese merchant traffic is concentrated but it's a large area and you don't see any individual units. There are also a multitude of other zones for coastal traffic, aircoverage etc, but they never reveal any information that's dead on.

[IMG]file:///C:/DOKUME%7E1/Standard/LOKALE%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.jpg[/IMG]

If you have used Sh3Gen you know how I do things, and that I do not like the spysat approach. But there have been a lot of complaints by people about never being able to find things plotted by Sh3Gen. I hope it makes sense if I therefore try to raise accuracy first, before anything else.

GlobalExplorer · 08-26-08, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bert8for3

For sure. I'm assuming it'll work much the same way as sh3Gen and ie be configurable in terms of quantity and accuracy of data? I've taken to running it several times during a patrol with settings on relatively higher quantity but relatively lower accuracy.

I actually recommend the opposite, low quantity but high quality of targets, because reliability was a big problem in Sh3Gen (has to do with spawn probabilites as well as time windows).

Quote:

Originally Posted by bert8for3

edit/add: For example, in my current patrol I was assigned to EK74. After 20+ days of zilch traffic, I'm moving northwest into DG based on sh3Gen intel and then planning to work eastward to Las Palmas to resupply from the supply ship Corrientes (IIRC the name). Good fun.

That was actually my pet project. I always loved the Vigo part in Das Boot, and I went to great lengths because I wanted to have that in SHIII. I am glad if it works for you, at least somewhat.

bert8for3 · 08-26-08, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

... I actually recommend the opposite, low quantity but high quality of targets, because reliability was a big problem in Sh3Gen (has to do with spawn probabilites as well as time windows).
...
That was actually my pet project. I always loved the Vigo part in Das Boot, and I went to great lengths because I wanted to have that in SHIII. I am glad if it works for you, at least somewhat.

I'll give it a try on the higher quality.

Works

(edit/add: the ressupply part)

Pisces · 08-26-08, 08:23 PM

Global Explorer, you are definately on the right track with this 'zone-ing' of intelligence. The dots and markers provided by SH3Gen on the tracking-room map gave a false sense of accuracy. Too pin-pointy. When I look at the map belonging to my savegames I keep getting the desire to flank to the nearest dots. Only to find out it was 'a mistakeh toh makeh'.

Providing general areas, yet not too big, is the way to go (imho).

Looking at the SH4 screenshots I find the areas showing merchant and naval activity in large scale overview somewhat obvious. Looking at the occupied ports and airbases it's not so difficult to judge this in one's mind. If you could find a way to show more traffic lanes between ports that would be great. I was thinking of showing the waypoint routes with (wide) rectangles instead of lines as in the editor. And then 'adding' or logic 'OR-ing' those colored areas together as you did with the airbase coverage. That should create plenty of overlap. And perhaps colorcoding/shading those areas (or parts thereof) based on average spawning frequency to show hot areas. But I do not know what tatukGIS allows you to do in this regard.

Lastly, I would like to beg you to make a SH3 release once you are finished with this trend. Please don't limit yourself (and us) to SH4. SH3 is still vibrant enough. I really would like to sink those japs aswell (somewhat of a personal reason) but SH4 is too heavy for my PC.

[minor edit: logic OR, ... not AND. Was way past bedtime.]

08-26-08, 04:01 PM	#31
GlobalExplorer Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Berlin Posts: 2,015 Downloads: 165 Uploads: 0	Sh3Gen was internally too complex and using a huge amount of variables (specific for time, theatre, faction, unit, ..). In the end I was never quite sure how it worked (when it comes to randomization). The good thing was that this made it unpredictable for the user. Right now the TR 2.0 application works without randomization. I found that it's much easier to develop from that. It' a possibility that I add randomization, but later, and of a much much simpler principle. Not that this should matter to the user. The result should be at least the same, and scale better with changes to the variables. Right I rather try to design the output in a way that it can be used without heavy randomization. Look at my screen to see what I mean. Screen1 shows just the following: an unknown number of merchants ships, as well as some unidentified naval unit is docked in the port. Patrols cover both entrances. There is also information about the position of coastal batteries as well as some coastal traffic. Screen 2: other scale, same principle. Colored zone shows where japanese merchant traffic is concentrated but it's a large area and you don't see any individual units. There are also a multitude of other zones for coastal traffic, aircoverage etc, but they never reveal any information that's dead on. [IMG]file:///C:/DOKUME%7E1/Standard/LOKALE%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.jpg[/IMG] If you have used Sh3Gen you know how I do things, and that I do not like the spysat approach. But there have been a lot of complaints by people about never being able to find things plotted by Sh3Gen. I hope it makes sense if I therefore try to raise accuracy first, before anything else. __________________

08-26-08, 08:23 PM	#34
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	Global Explorer, you are definately on the right track with this 'zone-ing' of intelligence. The dots and markers provided by SH3Gen on the tracking-room map gave a false sense of accuracy. Too pin-pointy. When I look at the map belonging to my savegames I keep getting the desire to flank to the nearest dots. Only to find out it was 'a mistakeh toh makeh'. Providing general areas, yet not too big, is the way to go (imho). Looking at the SH4 screenshots I find the areas showing merchant and naval activity in large scale overview somewhat obvious. Looking at the occupied ports and airbases it's not so difficult to judge this in one's mind. If you could find a way to show more traffic lanes between ports that would be great. I was thinking of showing the waypoint routes with (wide) rectangles instead of lines as in the editor. And then 'adding' or logic 'OR-ing' those colored areas together as you did with the airbase coverage. That should create plenty of overlap. And perhaps colorcoding/shading those areas (or parts thereof) based on average spawning frequency to show hot areas. But I do not know what tatukGIS allows you to do in this regard. Lastly, I would like to beg you to make a SH3 release once you are finished with this trend. Please don't limit yourself (and us) to SH4. SH3 is still vibrant enough. I really would like to sink those japs aswell (somewhat of a personal reason) but SH4 is too heavy for my PC. [minor edit: logic OR, ... not AND. Was way past bedtime.] Last edited by Pisces; 08-27-08 at 05:36 AM.