Are Oil Companies to blame for high fuel prices?

[McBeck]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Europeans arent forced to commute like we are, therego they are incapable of understanding. Id like to see one commute every day accross the 91 Freeway, 35 miles to work, and back home again, 5 days a week, filling up at 4 dollars a gallon, going through a tank and a half of gas a week. Being forced to live that far because its the only affordable place to live. Then lets see if he changes his comment about "how americans think cheap gas is a god given right".

That is a rather arrogant generalization, considering how different the European countries are...eventhough Denmark is a small country I know many people who commute that same distance for the very same reasons you state. I can hardly imagine how it is Germany ,the Netherlands or the UK...

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by McBeck

That is a rather arrogant generalization, considering how different the European countries are...eventhough Denmark is a small country I know many people who commute that same distance for the very same reasons you state. I can hardly imagine how it is Germany ,the Netherlands or the UK...

Agreed.....see post #25

[August]

I don't know what the national average is or whether such an average would be even relevant but a 35 mile commute is fairly short compared to what most people i know travel. 50 miles would be closer to an average i'd think.

[Tchocky]

The furthest I've had to commute has been about 25 miles, all of it on public transport/bicycle.
I remember my father doing 60 miles each way in the early 90's, that was a pain.
Higher petrol taxes pay for better public transport, so you don't have to buy expensive petrol :p

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

All said and done. I CANNOT see past record setting profits, coinciding with record setting gas prices. That is just bullschitt. Plain, and simple bullschitt. I can see rasing prices to maintain a profit, but NOT a record setting profit. No amount of pro big oil statistical maniulpation will ever convince me otherwise.

Yes. Thats whats ticking me off. Oil is more available this year then last by 12% yet they are pleading supply and demand while reaping record profits and frankly I don't give a ???? about somebodies 401k.

[Tchocky]

Of course you're going to have a higher supply of oil, look at the price of the stuff!

EDIT - the other factor is the more interesting one. I wonder how much it costs to insure millions of dollars worth of oil and tanker through the Strait of Hormuz? I wonder how much it cost before Operation Iraqi Freedom?

EDIT #2 - Found a nice article by the author of OilShock - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../03/do0311.xml

in the process of reading it, thought it was relevant

[Catfish]

Hello,
having enough experience in the oil business myself i can tell you that what happens has not much to do with "free" capitalism any more. The market is "split" by not more than 5 major global oil companies who now talk to each other, what they did not some 15 years ago - it is more or less a cartel.
Oil is being traded as "energy" at the stock market, and price gouging is anything else than unwanted.

Apart from that crude oil is not scarce. I am sorry to say it, having read all those recent books in a cosy armchair, dealing with those horror scenarios of shortages and breakdown of civilization, which (who already guessed it?) only adds to the rising prices. But it is not scarce, and will not be for the next 200 years (ymmv). The scarceness is artificial.
Then there is "free" market economy, and there is "social" market economy. We have said goodbye to the latter some 15 years ago.

"Our" problem is that we are so lazy letting our corrupt politicians decide what to do, who again are "advised" by ... (who guessed it?), if they do not come from that industry themselves. We do not even look for other possibilities to use and conserve energy. As long as there is only gas and oil without alternative searched for, do you really think prices will fall ? Why. should. they.

Greetings,
Catfish

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

...do you really think prices will fall ? Why. should. they.

Because if they don't people won't be able to afford to buy their product anymore?

[Catfish]

Hello,
what would you think happens, if poorer people cannot afford it anymore ? Those managers who now make profit do not think more than, hhmm, 10 years ahead ? A typical manager of a profitable company like the "Deutsche Bank" or "ExxonMobil" has ethical values of a churchyard worm. This is what he is paid for after all.

There is no event in history that companies would have lowered prices in favour of "the poor" - in all scenarios big companies would rather go bankrupt than that, or find another strategy or product to go on. Only reason for low prices is dumping to drive another company out of the market.
Oil companies in Europe now head for hydrogen production and solar energy, and ... water resources. If you control the satisfaction of a population's vital needs you can demand any price.

There are already people in Europe who cannot afford fuel any more. It does not matter much, there are german SUV cars that burn more than 20 litres/100 km (don't know how much mpg that is), and even if there are less poor who pay, there are some rich who do not care. And believe me those SUVs sell better than ever. It is just that the difference between poor and rich is currently developing a gap that never has been that wide before. Which is a situation that certainly can become explosive by itself. I just read the 20 percent of the population who is "well off" in Germany does not care until prices reach 2 and a half Euros/litre.

Oil, ok. We speak about production. Speaking of the upstream market oil is not really being produced, it is pumped up, sometimes with a lot of technology, admitted. Having a worldwide statistic including exploration, building and maintaining rigs and drilling with an assumed failure of 70 percent, the "production" of a barrel, which is a bit more than a litre (or 159 of them to be exact) costs around 52 Dollar cents (yes, a barrel).
Now you argue there are technical costs, transportation and raffination into the different petrochemical products, taxes etc. - but you will never reach the price that is demanded today. Petrochemical companies are currently making more $$ than ever. Question is how long, but ... who cares ?

Greetings,
Catfish

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by McBeck

That is a rather arrogant generalization, considering how different the European countries are...eventhough Denmark is a small country I know many people who commute that same distance for the very same reasons you state. I can hardly imagine how it is Germany ,the Netherlands or the UK...

Its an easy assumption to make from coutnries that have extensive subway systems, super commuter trains that are so damn slick they end up featured on televsions shows, and double decker buses.

Compartively we have very little of that. So, thinking that europeans dont commute like we do, is a very natural and easy conclusion to draw.

[Carotio]

Well, I'm happy that I still can settle with just a bike and public transportation. My 2 bikes just need a cupfull of oil per year for the chains.

But seriously, to the main theme: not only the oil companies are greedy. Half of the prize in Denmark goes directly to the tax system. But at least that money comes back to all citizens in some way or another.

Regarding the daily prizes, it's a question of supply and demand. I fully understand that people need their cars in order to go to work, when they live in an area, which are far away from work and/or bad connected with public transportation. And maybe they cannot use car pooling (? - sharing of car) with friends working in same area as yourself.
However, it never stops to amaze me that some people use their car in order to drive to their local store to buy a packet of cigarettes or similar small amounts of groceries in a neighborhood store instead of using the bike or just by walk, thus having some exercise at the same time. It's resource waste and unnecessary pollution

[quote=Ducimus]

Originally Posted by McBeck

Compartively we have very little of that. So, thinking that europeans dont commute like we do, is a very natural and easy conclusion to draw.

Strangely enough we are getting in to a discussion about commuting and a European - USA debate. But are we not forgetting the original point: fuel prices going up and there is no logical relation between the price consumers pay and the production costs. A lot of money goes to taxes and/or the oil companies. (In a different ratio per country and of course prices are not going up in a election year, by coincidence of course) And although I personally can cope very well I think Ducimus made a very short statement

quote: If fuel prices were going up to maintain the status quo on profit margins, i can understand that. HOWEVER, in this day and age when prices are going up, and they keep announcing record breaking profits, thats f'ing bullschitt, and the smell is coming from big oil.

Its Common sense, record making profits means overpriced product, because its obviously not costing you alot to produce that product!

They (big oil) also have the politicians in their pockets, so nothing will be done about it. unquote

And perhaps I commute in a total different way and do not feel the same problems with high prices. I agree: there is something fishy going on and as a consummer no way I will ever get to know what is really going on. The only thing I know: there is not much I can do about it. Even the so called "white gasstations" in the Netherlands that sell no brand gas and are a little bit cheaper make a lot of money and are one way or the other owned by the large companies. There is no charity in the oil business and the stakes are high, so are the prices all over the world.

[Fish]

Deleted.
Saw Aniuk's post to late.

[Tchocky]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/...444326609.html

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/...444326609.html

Hey! If it works..............................