[help] Frigate and antiship missiles, how to survive

[Molon Labe]

I've noticed that the problematic missiles can still be engaged manually, just as you would for a fast attack craft/Iranian patrol boat (grin) that got too close for comfort.

OK, Goldorak, you seem to be the representative of the Perry drivers lately, so let me put this to you. Is it more important for you to get the TIW so you know the missiles are coming (allowing you to be at EMCON prior to the launch and then getting your defenses ready at the TIW) or to have the benefit of automatic targeting for the CIWS?

My gut feeling is that the TIW is more valuable than automatic targeting because automatic targeting can be defeated by a missile salvo designed to attack from different bearings, and the SM-2 can handle 8 missiles plus in the time you have available provided that you know they're coming. I think that's worth a LAN or MP test though... be back soon...

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

I've noticed that the problematic missiles can still be engaged manually, just as you would for a fast attack craft/Iranian patrol boat (grin) that got too close for comfort.

OK, Goldorak, you seem to be the representative of the Perry drivers lately, so let me put this to you. Is it more important for you to get the TIW so you know the missiles are coming (allowing you to be at EMCON prior to the launch and then getting your defenses ready at the TIW) or to have the benefit of automatic targeting for the CIWS?

My gut feeling is that the TIW is more valuable than automatic targeting because automatic targeting can be defeated by a missile salvo designed to attack from different bearings, and the SM-2 can handle 8 missiles plus in the time you have available provided that you know they're coming. I think that's worth a LAN or MP test though... be back soon...

To be honest I don't like either alternative, either lose the TIW or the CWIS.
But if a choice must be made then I prefer to lose the TIW messages and regain the CWIS defense system. The reason is that the sm-2 are not sufficient to protect the frigate, and if you play multiplayer missions where players on subs are allowed to target the frigate with volleys of 8-10+ missiles, having the TIW but not the CWIS is basically a death warrant for the Perry. Nothing you can do will take down 10 missiles.
And I didn't even consider an attack on multiple vectors on the frigate.
I know this is a situation of damned if you do damned if you don't, but as I see it the CWIS is paramount for the defense of the frigate.

[Molon Labe]

Well just to be clear, you do still have the CIWS, you just have to target it manually.

I don't have time to finish my LAN testing right now, but so far it looks like even with multiple attack vectors the CIWS can defeat a 16 missile salvo on automatic. It was a close call though. I'll try to look into this a little more tonight after I figure out the precise limitations of the missile seeker to get the best possible separation.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Well just to be clear, you do still have the CIWS, you just have to target it manually.

I don't have time to finish my LAN testing right now, but so far it looks like even with multiple attack vectors the CIWS can defeat a 16 missile salvo on automatic. It was a close call though. I'll try to look into this a little more tonight after I figure out the precise limitations of the missile seeker to get the best possible separation.

Com'on now ML, you know perfectly well that manual targeting is just not as proficient as auto-targeting.
And more relevant is the fact that while you are manually targeting the missiles with the cwis you can't at the same time use the sm-2.
And this is why the cwis has to be used on auto.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by goldorak

Com'on now ML, you know perfectly well that manual targeting is just not as proficient as auto-targeting.
And more relevant is the fact that while you are manually targeting the missiles with the cwis you can't at the same time use the sm-2.
And this is why the cwis has to be used on auto.

We're talking about a trade off here. Of course it's not as proficient. That's not the issue. The question is whether it is good enough to allow the FFG a chance at defeating the missiles that get through the SM-2 and chaff. And of course you don't use both at the same time, you use the SM-2 when you first detect them and use the CIWS to pick off the leakers. Even in manual it's still quick too. It's just tab-click-boom-tab-click-boom.... I don't see how you can dismiss that outright instead of trying it out first.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

We're talking about a trade off here. Of course it's not as proficient. That's not the issue. The question is whether it is good enough to allow the FFG a chance at defeating the missiles that get through the SM-2 and chaff. And of course you don't use both at the same time, you use the SM-2 when you first detect them and use the CIWS to pick off the leakers. Even in manual it's still quick too. It's just tab-click-boom-tab-click-boom.... I don't see how you can dismiss that outright instead of trying it out first.

You are right, proficiency is not the issue, gameplay balance is. If you ditch the cwis (in auto/full auto mode) no amount of chaff/flares and sm-2 will enable the frigate to survive against a volley of 8-10+ missiles. What happens if you attack the frigate from to oppossing directions ? Same problem.
At least with auto targetting you give the player on the perry a fighting chance, he may die or he may survive but at least he has a fighting chance.
With no cwis on auto you have no chance whatsoever, you lose every single time.
Thats why I prefer to renounce to the TIW messages and regain the CWIS.

[TLAM Strike]

Let me double post an idea that I sent ML.

What if we had a normal no TIW missile that dropped a torpedo noisemaker in the water for the TIW at launch.

It that possable with doctrines?

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Let me double post an idea that I sent ML.

What if we had a normal no TIW missile that dropped a torpedo noisemaker in the water for the TIW at launch.

It that possable with doctrines?

Considering that the empty first stage of the -27 sticks around after it launches the 2nd stage, it seems like it should be possible. LW is the expert though, he'll know for sure.

[Mau]

I agree that we absolutely need the CIWS. What about the other target, i.e. SSM being launched by land or other ship? As well you said Subsonic, what about supersonic? So is it really caused by the TIW?

Thanks

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Mau

I agree that we absolutely need the CIWS. What about the other target, i.e. SSM being launched by land or other ship? As well you said Subsonic, what about supersonic? So is it really caused by the TIW?

Thanks

Yeah, it's definitely the TIW that's doing it. The only weapons effected are sub-launched missiles. The CIWS is working normally against surface, land, and air launched threats.