Sub Pitch Tweaking - Comparison Testing

[panthercules]

Originally Posted by The General

As in aerodynamics, 'Roll' is the side to side movement, not 'Pitch' as you seem to be refering to it. Pitch is the movent from bow to stern. Like when you dive nose down.

I'm not sure who the "you" is that you are referring to above, but I understand and agree with you about the proper meaning of "pitch" and "roll". My purpose here has been to try to increase the "pitching" motion of the subs (real or, if necessary, just apparent), but to do so without screwing up the "roll" or any other aspects of the movement/behavior of the subs or the surface ships or messing up anything Leo is doing with ROW.

As I mentioned above, I have suspended testing on this for a while, waiting for Leo to get ROW updated for patch 1.4. Unless (as I hope and pray) we get some really good news about his condition and recovery from his latest setback pretty soon, however, I may go ahead and load up what ROW updates we do have and get back to work on this in a few days and see if it's still needed.

[Sailor Steve]

I like #2 myself, and yet they seemed to me to represent different sea states. Is the sea the same in both? Two reminded me of the feel I actually experienced at sea; but on the other hand that was way back before a lot of folks here were even born, so I may be adding something that wasn't really there.

Sorry, though; neither one made me feel remotely 'Urpy'.

[Capt. Shark Bait]

went with 2. now, can someone hand me the dramamine?

[EAGLE_01]

Just looked at #2 again, and again, EFFIN' INCREDIBLE. Hope everything is going ok for everyone. Thanks for all your work on making this sim the best ever. Hope everything is going ok....

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by ATR-42

a 300 foot sub is not going to pitch much

Depends on the weather. Here's a video posted by Oberon, which shows a carrier easily twice that long having a little difficulty. Starting at 2:00.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...6&postcount=31

[edit] How weird, it's a different one now. Originally it showed a bunch of WW2 clips, including big ships in bad weather.

Never mind.

[Sirten Deth]

If you are looking for eye candy No2 is better but for more reality No1 is better for the sea conditions used. I lived & worked on the ocean for 25 years I do know a little about what it is like. For those seas, relativly short choppy waves, a boat displacing 1500 tons or so and being as narrow as a sub would not react quick enough to pitch very much. For the most part it would just cut through the waves making it a wet deck. A shorter vessel with more beam & the same displacment would pitch more. If the conditions were less wind with a long lazy swell it woud pitch more. But the roll looked pretty good though I could not reallly tell AoB of the waves. But for in game WHO CARES. This is, after all, for fun. True ?

[Doolittle81]

I had the sub sitting off the island All Engines Stopped in what appeared to be relatively calm waters.....Would a real sub roll as much as seen here? (A distant view, but you'll get the idea of the Roll):
http://files.filefront.com/SubAmbush.../fileinfo.html

[panthercules]

Originally Posted by Doolittle81

I had the sub sitting off the island All Engines Stopped in what appeared to be relatively calm waters.....Would a real sub roll as much as seen here? (A distant view, but you'll get the idea of the Roll):
http://files.filefront.com/SubAmbush.../fileinfo.html

I'm not sure - I've noticed in previous testing that before I started tweaking on it I was getting what seemed like some pretty pronounced rolling action at dead stop in port in light winds (5m/s) - it generally calmed down a bit once I got underway, which seemed somewhat reasonable to me as I figured the boat probably would get more stable once at speed, but it did bother me a little as it seemed too pronounced for the relatively calm sea state. I think I was on to something that had promise for dampening the roll a bit, but that was before the 1.4 patch and the latest ROW changes so I'll have to check all this stuff again to see how those things may have changed the behaviors in question.

It will probably take me a few days to shake off the depression and get back in the mood, as well as to finish loading up all the mod changes that occurred since I left for vacation over the Holidays so as to get a good test bed going again, but I suppose that it's about time to pick back up with this testing now that Leo's gone. I will miss his input and encouragement on this, as on so many things around here.

[ATR-42]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Depends on the weather.

Very good point Steve. My life long experience is offshore fishing in the atlantic on a boat thats only 50' long. Which is a bit off from a sub but i try and relate
that said.....

I can barely imagine the seas that I read about that knock containers off container ships, and that must be an incredible sight to see. Not to mention a carrier getting tossed around like a top, amazing.

The max winds SH4 will generate is 15 meters per second, thats roughly a 30 knot wind. I've fished many seas in 30 knot winds, im sure a lot of members here have water experience with those winds as well that can chime in. This is a complete guesstimate but id have to say with 30 knot winds a typical sea you will see is right around 10-12' (maybe 15'?). (someone please correct, me im estimating)

thats a guess and im just putting this out for discussion.

For accuracy I feel like the roll pitch behavior should reflect a 12' sea to a 300' sub, which i dont think is going to be anything too bad, i would suspect similar to video number two.

I really think Dave got it very close to where it should be with his latest ROW release as well.

I am looking forward to see what comes of this work that Panthercules is working on here.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Doolittle81

I had the sub sitting off the island All Engines Stopped in what appeared to be relatively calm waters.....Would a real sub roll as much as seen here? (A distant view, but you'll get the idea of the Roll):
http://files.filefront.com/SubAmbush.../fileinfo.html

That seems excessive to me, but you say "relatively calm". If you look at some of the film clips of ships in storms, the water actually looks "relatively calm". What was the wind speed when you tested?

@ATR-42: I'm used to SH3 and the 'Big Waves' mod, which makes the sea twice as high as the in-game wind speed would indicate, so the maximum speed now approximates 30 m/s, or 60+ knots. It gives a lot more variation.

As for SH4, I still haven't been able to play it, so I have no real feel for what's going on in the game.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by ATR-42

The max winds SH4 will generate is 15 meters per second, thats roughly a 30 knot wind. I've fished many seas in 30 knot winds, im sure a lot of members here have water experience with those winds as well that can chime in. This is a complete guesstimate but id have to say with 30 knot winds a typical sea you will see is right around 10-12' (maybe 15'?). (someone please correct, me im estimating)

Yep, that's pretty close. According to the Beaufort Scale a 15 m/s wind equates to roughly 13-19-foot waves.