U-boats with SH4!!? - Page 3

AVGWarhawk · 11-04-07, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Budokan

I guess I don't understand the "us vs. them" debate.

Nor do I! Now I have two threads to watch

Perhaps it is just the passion of the sea and the souls that like sailing it! Now get to grid whatever and sink a vessel

Chock · 11-04-07, 11:03 AM

So, we have confirmed that the US and European manuals are different, I don't understand why you want to be antagonistic about it, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't say something in my manual. Secure from General Quarters.

Chock

Torplexed · 11-04-07, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Budokan

I guess I don't understand the "us vs. them" debate.

Me neither. I remember when back in my days of tank miniature simulations, there were certain players who weren't interested in playing anything but the Eastern Front. (British and American tanks weren't as cool as Tigers and T-34s tangling) and vice versa. I guess every community develops it's schisms.

Ducimus · 11-04-07, 01:11 PM

I have to admit, on this debate, i have to take a good long look at the inside of myself to understand why i get antagonistic, i know i do it, and its not intentional. Normally with debates, i don't have an emotional attachment, but with SH4, i do. And i admit this.

I think its because, quite simply of nationlistic feeling, or some odd sense of patriotism. I mean, ive played uboats, for 3 years. I learned all about their history, but how now, heres a game that was about my country's history! I love my country with all heart and served my stint in the military like many before me, and here is a game about my own countries history. So i think when people put the game down, or slight the US sub service, i just get angry. It feels like an indirect insult. I know thats now how people intend it, but it feels that way none the less.

Ive often thought about this portion of history. Here was a theater when were were not the aggressors, here was a war where the cause was just, and what we had to do was clear. The other day i read this passage, and in my mind, it encapsuled what the PTO, and ultimatly SH4 is all about:

"The jack entered Pearl Harbor on May 21 1943- some sixteen months after the strike on Pearl Harbor. It was a solemn moment for all of us as we went past Ford Island and saw the place where our battle fleet had been destroyed. Work was still under way on some of the sunken battleships, and the mainmast of the Arizona was still serving as a coffin for the more then one thousand officers and sailors trapped in her, could be seen in the distance.

Looking at the actual scenes of this disaster, i felt as though something very sacred to my country has been raped and pillaged - not in the fair give-and-take of war, but without warning on a calm and peaceful sunday morning, while men slept in their bunks.

I do not consider myself a vengeful person, but that morning i felt a deep burning desire to show these people they could not do that to the United States without paying a dreadful price. To my young mind, the day those red-ball-marked planes winged in from the north was one that indeed would live in infamy and change the world forever"

And you know, it isn't so much that people want to add uboats to Sh4, its the enthusiam to do so. Its like people are so eager to cast aside what was truly a just cause and, drape it with the flag of the third reich. Thats what hurts the most.

DeepIron · 11-04-07, 01:21 PM

I'm not trying to add "gas to the fire" here, but I also get the feeling from posts in the other thread that there were still aspects of the SH4 Pacific War that were lacking from SH4: Jap sub types, missing but "crucial" IJN and Merchant marine vessels, to name a couple of items. The PTO community felt a bit slighted that these issues were not being addressed in the add-on, but that the predominantly SH3 ATO community was being served...

bigboywooly · 11-04-07, 01:50 PM

Remember the SH3 release was woefully short of ships too
C and T type units for every nation
The same armed trawler for everyone too and US fleet tug - which has made another appearance as 3 different units in SH4 with variations

I have no doubt in time ppl will add more units in SH4 other than some of the kitbashed and ported ships that are available now
All takes time to get right

Who knows what units Ubi will release in the addon - if any apart from the Scheer\Spee shown so far

RE the missing Jap sub types - agreed - with Ubi this time managing to sort out air drop torps it would ( hopefully ) have been easier to add AI subs with the capability of fire

Again no doubt will be sorted if not by Ubi then by others

DeepIron · 11-04-07, 01:59 PM

If Ubi would release some of their tools for getting new assets into SH4, I would be in 7th heaven... and I think it would go a long way with both ATO/PTO communities. I know there are tools in development, but the idea of an "official, we used this tool" would be SO cool...

bigboywooly · 11-04-07, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepIron

If Ubi would release some of their tools for getting new assets into SH4, I would be in 7th heaven... and I think it would go a long way with both ATO/PTO communities. I know there are tools in development, but the idea of an "official, we used this tool" would be SO cool...

True to a certain extent
Still needs someone to actually make a 3d model first
I believe thats harder than the importing part

DeepIron · 11-04-07, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Still needs someone to actually make a 3d model first
I believe thats harder than the importing part

Depends on the modeler really. I'm sitting on a couple vessels for the PTO from this thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111177
it would be so much simpler to add them if Ubi would release the tool(s)...

Friedmann · 11-04-07, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

And you know, it isn't so much that people want to add uboats to Sh4, its the enthusiam to do so. Its like people are so eager to cast aside what was truly a just cause and, drape it with the flag of the third reich. Thats what hurts the most.

You know, when modifications and addons cause this level of emotional turmoil perhaps its best to walk away from the keyboard and get some fresh air.

I mean seriously, its a game not a shrine.

Relax and have a Corona or something

Fenris_Wolf · 11-04-07, 09:40 PM

True there haven't been many tributes to the American silent service lately except SH4. And it's a beautiful game, isn't it? Though, with all due acknowledgment and respect, almost every other game is a tribute to the US military if you come to think of it. That repetition gets a bit boring for some gaming enthusiasts like myself. Also, SH3 community and U-boat fans have the right to be entertained every once in a blue moon, too. No?

Playing a video game from the "other" side won't hurt/change you one bit either in my humble opinion. I get sad when people think SH3 players are not so politically positive, or the "us and them" bollocks. My personal set of ideas and values that I respect are not so weak that playing a video game from the enemy's side would affect them. Variety is the spice of life, remember!

As for what other games? Please allow me to point out a few examples. US soldiers with M1 Garands, Tommy guns, M16's, UZI's. Games: medal of honor, company of heroes, call of duty, brothers in arms to name a few. American spies/commandos get their games: Splinter Cell (with patriotic stuff too), etc. American pilots get <insert popular air sim names here>.

Now, my friends, you have to realize that not every gamer (especially those well beyond and past the teens era) would love to fire the same old 5.56mm (weak caliber tbvh) modern rifle or the old M1 rifle/tommy gun in -every- other shooting game. Or fly a F-15/16/18/22 in every flight sim, or always be a spy who overcomes the security of some north african rural settlement. Or drive a submarine that rarely gets depth charged enough for you to break a sweat. That's how I see this matter and I'm glad UBI sees it that way, too.

However, I'm all for a Apache helicopter sim though, and it's been ages since I've played a good one.

clayton · 11-04-07, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Budokan

I guess I don't understand the "us vs. them" debate.

I think i do. Although im not sure of myself on this subject anymore, it all gets muddled after awhile. I think the bottom line is that Sh4 was meant as a tribute to the US submarine service in the pacific theater. Or at least, that is the common perception. So The term "uboat" is like a slap in the face, because they always get all the hype and attention. So I think for many reasons, alot of people in the SH4 community are just tired of hearing about them.

Bingo!

dcb · 11-05-07, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Friedmann

I mean seriously, its a game not a shrine.

Relax and have a Corona or something

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Absolutely right!

kiwi_2005 · 11-05-07, 08:03 AM

Im looking forward to SH4 addon with Uboats have you seen the pictures of the boats? WOW!

No SH3 graphics can beat the SH4 engine folks.....Good luck

Yet im guessing its going to be a free download? If not, im more than happy to pay $100 for the addon if so.

Jimbuna · 11-07-07, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

Im looking forward to SH4 addon with Uboats have you seen the pictures of the boats? WOW!

No SH3 graphics can beat the SH4 engine folks.....Good luck

Yet im guessing its going to be a free download? If not, im more than happy to pay $100 for the addon if so.

Shush!!.....someone might hear you

11-04-07, 11:03 AM	#32
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	So, we have confirmed that the US and European manuals are different, I don't understand why you want to be antagonistic about it, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't say something in my manual. Secure from General Quarters. Chock __________________

11-04-07, 01:21 PM	#35
DeepIron Sea Lord Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Too far from the Pacific right now... Posts: 1,634 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'm not trying to add "gas to the fire" here, but I also get the feeling from posts in the other thread that there were still aspects of the SH4 Pacific War that were lacking from SH4: Jap sub types, missing but "crucial" IJN and Merchant marine vessels, to name a couple of items. The PTO community felt a bit slighted that these issues were not being addressed in the add-on, but that the predominantly SH3 ATO community was being served... __________________ RFB / RSRDC Beta Tester RFB / RSRDC Modding Forum: http://forum.kickinbak.com/index.php RFB Top Post link: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=125529 RFB Loadout: RFB_V1.52_102408: RFB_V1.52_Patch_111608: RSRDC_RFBv15_V396

11-04-07, 01:50 PM	#36
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Remember the SH3 release was woefully short of ships too C and T type units for every nation The same armed trawler for everyone too and US fleet tug - which has made another appearance as 3 different units in SH4 with variations I have no doubt in time ppl will add more units in SH4 other than some of the kitbashed and ported ships that are available now All takes time to get right Who knows what units Ubi will release in the addon - if any apart from the Scheer\Spee shown so far RE the missing Jap sub types - agreed - with Ubi this time managing to sort out air drop torps it would ( hopefully ) have been easier to add AI subs with the capability of fire Again no doubt will be sorted if not by Ubi then by others __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

11-04-07, 01:59 PM	#37
DeepIron Sea Lord Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Too far from the Pacific right now... Posts: 1,634 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	If Ubi would release some of their tools for getting new assets into SH4, I would be in 7th heaven... and I think it would go a long way with both ATO/PTO communities. I know there are tools in development, but the idea of an "official, we used this tool" would be SO cool... __________________ RFB / RSRDC Beta Tester RFB / RSRDC Modding Forum: http://forum.kickinbak.com/index.php RFB Top Post link: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=125529 RFB Loadout: RFB_V1.52_102408: RFB_V1.52_Patch_111608: RSRDC_RFBv15_V396

11-04-07, 09:40 PM	#41
Fenris_Wolf Sparky Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 155 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	True there haven't been many tributes to the American silent service lately except SH4. And it's a beautiful game, isn't it? Though, with all due acknowledgment and respect, almost every other game is a tribute to the US military if you come to think of it. That repetition gets a bit boring for some gaming enthusiasts like myself. Also, SH3 community and U-boat fans have the right to be entertained every once in a blue moon, too. No? Playing a video game from the "other" side won't hurt/change you one bit either in my humble opinion. I get sad when people think SH3 players are not so politically positive, or the "us and them" bollocks. My personal set of ideas and values that I respect are not so weak that playing a video game from the enemy's side would affect them. Variety is the spice of life, remember! As for what other games? Please allow me to point out a few examples. US soldiers with M1 Garands, Tommy guns, M16's, UZI's. Games: medal of honor, company of heroes, call of duty, brothers in arms to name a few. American spies/commandos get their games: Splinter Cell (with patriotic stuff too), etc. American pilots get <insert popular air sim names here>. Now, my friends, you have to realize that not every gamer (especially those well beyond and past the teens era) would love to fire the same old 5.56mm (weak caliber tbvh) modern rifle or the old M1 rifle/tommy gun in -every- other shooting game. Or fly a F-15/16/18/22 in every flight sim, or always be a spy who overcomes the security of some north african rural settlement. Or drive a submarine that rarely gets depth charged enough for you to break a sweat. That's how I see this matter and I'm glad UBI sees it that way, too. However, I'm all for a Apache helicopter sim though, and it's been ages since I've played a good one. __________________ NO HOOCHIE WOOCHIE - NO LIFE!

11-04-07, 01:11 PM	#34
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	I have to admit, on this debate, i have to take a good long look at the inside of myself to understand why i get antagonistic, i know i do it, and its not intentional. Normally with debates, i don't have an emotional attachment, but with SH4, i do. And i admit this. I think its because, quite simply of nationlistic feeling, or some odd sense of patriotism. I mean, ive played uboats, for 3 years. I learned all about their history, but how now, heres a game that was about my country's history! I love my country with all heart and served my stint in the military like many before me, and here is a game about my own countries history. So i think when people put the game down, or slight the US sub service, i just get angry. It feels like an indirect insult. I know thats now how people intend it, but it feels that way none the less. Ive often thought about this portion of history. Here was a theater when were were not the aggressors, here was a war where the cause was just, and what we had to do was clear. The other day i read this passage, and in my mind, it encapsuled what the PTO, and ultimatly SH4 is all about: "The jack entered Pearl Harbor on May 21 1943- some sixteen months after the strike on Pearl Harbor. It was a solemn moment for all of us as we went past Ford Island and saw the place where our battle fleet had been destroyed. Work was still under way on some of the sunken battleships, and the mainmast of the Arizona was still serving as a coffin for the more then one thousand officers and sailors trapped in her, could be seen in the distance. Looking at the actual scenes of this disaster, i felt as though something very sacred to my country has been raped and pillaged - not in the fair give-and-take of war, but without warning on a calm and peaceful sunday morning, while men slept in their bunks. I do not consider myself a vengeful person, but that morning i felt a deep burning desire to show these people they could not do that to the United States without paying a dreadful price. To my young mind, the day those red-ball-marked planes winged in from the north was one that indeed would live in infamy and change the world forever" And you know, it isn't so much that people want to add uboats to Sh4, its the enthusiam to do so. Its like people are so eager to cast aside what was truly a just cause and, drape it with the flag of the third reich. Thats what hurts the most.

11-05-07, 08:03 AM	#44
kiwi_2005 Eternal Patrol Join Date: May 2004 Location: Aeoteroa Posts: 7,382 Downloads: 223 Uploads: 1	Im looking forward to SH4 addon with Uboats have you seen the pictures of the boats? WOW! No SH3 graphics can beat the SH4 engine folks.....Good luck Yet im guessing its going to be a free download? If not, im more than happy to pay $100 for the addon if so. __________________ RIP kiwi_2005 Those who can't laugh at themselves leave the job to others.