Pope John Paul II Returns - Page 3

Skybird · 10-17-07, 08:51 AM

Kranz,

I try to write loud and clear so that you can hear me up there where you are:

the wikipedia entry was for an easy overview on the man, assuming that many people, including you, would not know who he was. Probabaly no other psychotherapist ever has insisted on "meaning" and "sense" being two most vital essentials to ensure man's psychologcal health and strengthen his willingness to live, like Frankl did. And since you refer to the Holocaust and said all Jews there did know that they would have to die - this simply illustrates that you do not have much insight into the theme. Becasue what we know from witness reports - and Frankl'S work - is this: those who were unable to find their place in a belief or conviction that it all has a meaning beyond the imminent situation, and that they would survive, earlier became lethally desperate and physically weak, and sick, and died much faster and earlier than those who were able to hold convictions that gave them perspective beyond the horror they were caught in: and of these, a significantly higher ammount of people survived.

I have been a clinical psychologist once, and studied Frankl's therapy theory (called logotherapy) as well as some others during my university time, that's why I know some of his writings and his two major works. Not by wikipedia, which was not present at that time, but by having worked my way through the books from A to Z.

And in general I must say that again you sound very much confused, mildly put - others may have even much harsher descriptions on their mind.

Skybird · 10-17-07, 08:57 AM

@ Kiwi,
two listenings, and one reading:

http://users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html

And these two books are currently on my table, still waiting to be read by me

, I link to the english originals though having the German editions:

http://www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-R...2629500&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-...2629546&sr=8-1

As Betrand Russell quoted someone: "There are good people in the world doing good things, and there are evil people in the world doing evil things. But it takes religion to make a good man doing evil things."

Sorry that I am not being impressed by quotes from scriptures. It's just that their presence just illustrates the reason why I criticise it. Gimme you thoughts, that is okay and I appreciate it, but spare me the scriptures, please: they make it difficult for me to remain serious.

Happy Times · 10-17-07, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kranz

Skybird-my statement had a meaning-probably you didn't want to understand it-on the contrary to your's my statement wasn't based on Wikipedia.I wrote several essays etc concerning this matter based on books(so no wikipedia).I agree-not all jews shoed this kind of attitude(e.g the sonderkomando rebel)but most of them.Why I wrote it? Because I wanted to show The Avon Lady that insulting someone's beliefs may result in a counterstrike aimed at her nation and religion.As I said before I don't believe that the Pope could be seen but so I wasn't insulted but I had to show that so called "giggles" in this kind of case are at the lowest level.Once again for Skybird-this Frankl is "a great example".Indeed.I'm curious why you haven't mentioned David Irving-he was also writting about Holocaust.But-choising a jew as a authority was really funny.Again The Avon Lady-
"Try to shut the Jews up elsewhere folks. It won't work here. Too bad." Do you think that jews are so important and everybody wants to shut them up?Are you joking?Probably you believe in some international treason or sth like this.Your intention-when showing this rubber guy- was clear and please don't try to cheat us.

There are many deranged ultra catholics in Poland.:p

kiwi_2005 · 10-17-07, 09:24 AM

I put the wrong link up the other was about Time Travel.

The 6 Billion Dollar Experiment http://tinyurl.com/22fuyv

The Avon Lady · 10-17-07, 09:36 AM

The same kind of Poles that were only more than happy that my ancestors were butchered in their country.

The same scum.

Happy Times · 10-17-07, 09:41 AM

Getting a beer and snacks quick to see this..

kranz · 10-17-07, 10:42 AM

Happy Times-what do you mean by "deranged"? Are they "deranged" because they believe in what their religion says, or they believe in what YOU cannot explain.Maybe you are deranged because you can't understand their point of view.
The Avon Lady-after reading you last post I must say that it's wastage of time to respond to you.How about those Poles who were saving jews?They had run the risk for your "ancestors".It's a pitty that you forgot about them.Not only in Poland were they "butchered".But that's a different story.You used the correct verb-butchered-yes they were since they were olnly waiting for the end.And who do you call scum ?You feel safe because you are sitting in front of your PC?Typical jewish behaviour.I hope that the Palestinians will kick your asses and Ahmadinejad will help them.Without USA help you would nothing.As I said-watch your language-having a few post more than I do doesn't give you the right to offend others.
Skybird-I'm not confused... Read some Irving's now.

Happy Times · 10-17-07, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kranz

Happy Times-what do you mean by "deranged"? Are they "deranged" because they believe in what their religion says, or they believe in what YOU cannot explain.Maybe you are deranged because you can't understand their point of view.
The Avon Lady-after reading you last post I must say that it's wastage of time to respond to you.How about those Poles who were saving jews?They had run the risk for your "ancestors".It's a pitty that you forgot about them.Not only in Poland were they "butchered".But that's a different story.You used the correct verb-butchered-yes they were since they were olnly waiting for the end.And who do you call scum ?You feel safe because you are sitting in front of your PC?Typical jewish behaviour.I hope that the Palestinians will kick your asses and Ahmadinejad will help them.Without USA help you would nothing.As I said-watch your language-having a few post more than I do doesn't give you the right to offend others.
Skybird-I'm not confused... Read some Irving's now.

I have to admit, we ambushed you, and you walked right into it. Finno-Israeli joint operation.:p Now you can crawl back in the hole you came from..

kranz · 10-17-07, 12:37 PM

Happy Times-thanks for advice.Now my turn-take the shotgun, point its barrel at your head and pull the trigger.Most of people would die due to destroying their brain-don't worry-it won't happen to you.

STEED · 10-17-07, 12:49 PM

Penelope_Grey · 10-17-07, 12:49 PM

EDIT: Previous contents removed due to the sensible points raised below. RE: nastiness

Hakahura · 10-17-07, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chock

It's obviously not JP2 if you look closely...

Viva Catholicism Baby!

Chock

Thankyou very much!

Skybird · 10-17-07, 12:53 PM

For those not knowing the man, David Irving, who Kranz is repeatedly referring to, was found by a British court to be an active denier of the Holocaust, an anti-semite racist, a revisionist, a supporter of right-winged extremist organisations and a promoter of Nazism. His reputation as a historian also was brought to ruins by himself by having forged and/or misinterpreted historical facts, and describing the results of these fact-forgings in several ofhis books. He has been in conflict with courts in Austria and Germany as well, and served several terms in prison, I believe.

In other words, he is as venomous as a viper and you do not wish to touch him even with iron gloves.

To compare such a racist Nazi-sympathiser with Victor Frankl and his work on the importance of man giving meaning to his life in order to gain happiness is an act of great blindness and ignorrance, and illustrates what direction Kranz is coming from.

Don't waste your time by replying, Kranz. I'm done with you.

STEED · 10-17-07, 01:02 PM

Please can those who got an iron rod in the fire call it a day, this was meant to be a light hearted thread only.

kranz · 10-17-07, 01:03 PM

yeah-this helmet was needed.But don't forget what happened in Kosovo.

10-17-07, 08:51 AM	#31
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,618 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Kranz, I try to write loud and clear so that you can hear me up there where you are: the wikipedia entry was for an easy overview on the man, assuming that many people, including you, would not know who he was. Probabaly no other psychotherapist ever has insisted on "meaning" and "sense" being two most vital essentials to ensure man's psychologcal health and strengthen his willingness to live, like Frankl did. And since you refer to the Holocaust and said all Jews there did know that they would have to die - this simply illustrates that you do not have much insight into the theme. Becasue what we know from witness reports - and Frankl'S work - is this: those who were unable to find their place in a belief or conviction that it all has a meaning beyond the imminent situation, and that they would survive, earlier became lethally desperate and physically weak, and sick, and died much faster and earlier than those who were able to hold convictions that gave them perspective beyond the horror they were caught in: and of these, a significantly higher ammount of people survived. I have been a clinical psychologist once, and studied Frankl's therapy theory (called logotherapy) as well as some others during my university time, that's why I know some of his writings and his two major works. Not by wikipedia, which was not present at that time, but by having worked my way through the books from A to Z. And in general I must say that again you sound very much confused, mildly put - others may have even much harsher descriptions on their mind. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 10-17-07 at 09:07 AM.

10-17-07, 08:57 AM	#32
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,618 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	@ Kiwi, two listenings, and one reading: http://users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html And these two books are currently on my table, still waiting to be read by me , I link to the english originals though having the German editions: http://www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-R...2629500&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-...2629546&sr=8-1 As Betrand Russell quoted someone: "There are good people in the world doing good things, and there are evil people in the world doing evil things. But it takes religion to make a good man doing evil things." Sorry that I am not being impressed by quotes from scriptures. It's just that their presence just illustrates the reason why I criticise it. Gimme you thoughts, that is okay and I appreciate it, but spare me the scriptures, please: they make it difficult for me to remain serious. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-17-07, 09:24 AM	#34
kiwi_2005 Eternal Patrol Join Date: May 2004 Location: Aeoteroa Posts: 7,382 Downloads: 223 Uploads: 1	I put the wrong link up the other was about Time Travel. The 6 Billion Dollar Experiment http://tinyurl.com/22fuyv __________________ RIP kiwi_2005 Those who can't laugh at themselves leave the job to others.

10-17-07, 09:36 AM	#35
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	The same kind of Poles that were only more than happy that my ancestors were butchered in their country. The same scum. __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women." - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974

10-17-07, 09:41 AM	#36
Happy Times Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 2,950 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Getting a beer and snacks quick to see this.. __________________

10-17-07, 10:42 AM	#37
kranz The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Poland Posts: 1,430 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Happy Times-what do you mean by "deranged"? Are they "deranged" because they believe in what their religion says, or they believe in what YOU cannot explain.Maybe you are deranged because you can't understand their point of view. The Avon Lady-after reading you last post I must say that it's wastage of time to respond to you.How about those Poles who were saving jews?They had run the risk for your "ancestors".It's a pitty that you forgot about them.Not only in Poland were they "butchered".But that's a different story.You used the correct verb-butchered-yes they were since they were olnly waiting for the end.And who do you call scum ?You feel safe because you are sitting in front of your PC?Typical jewish behaviour.I hope that the Palestinians will kick your asses and Ahmadinejad will help them.Without USA help you would nothing.As I said-watch your language-having a few post more than I do doesn't give you the right to offend others. Skybird-I'm not confused... Read some Irving's now.

10-17-07, 12:37 PM	#39
kranz The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Poland Posts: 1,430 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Happy Times-thanks for advice.Now my turn-take the shotgun, point its barrel at your head and pull the trigger.Most of people would die due to destroying their brain-don't worry-it won't happen to you.

10-17-07, 12:49 PM	#40
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	__________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

10-17-07, 12:49 PM	#41
Penelope_Grey Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: UK Posts: 1,893 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	EDIT: Previous contents removed due to the sensible points raised below. RE: nastiness __________________ I SURVIVED THE FIRST EVER SUBSIM WEREWOLF HUNT - and... I actually won the game for the humans too! Last edited by Penelope_Grey; 10-17-07 at 02:11 PM.

10-17-07, 12:53 PM	#43
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,618 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	For those not knowing the man, David Irving, who Kranz is repeatedly referring to, was found by a British court to be an active denier of the Holocaust, an anti-semite racist, a revisionist, a supporter of right-winged extremist organisations and a promoter of Nazism. His reputation as a historian also was brought to ruins by himself by having forged and/or misinterpreted historical facts, and describing the results of these fact-forgings in several ofhis books. He has been in conflict with courts in Austria and Germany as well, and served several terms in prison, I believe. In other words, he is as venomous as a viper and you do not wish to touch him even with iron gloves. To compare such a racist Nazi-sympathiser with Victor Frankl and his work on the importance of man giving meaning to his life in order to gain happiness is an act of great blindness and ignorrance, and illustrates what direction Kranz is coming from. Don't waste your time by replying, Kranz. I'm done with you. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-17-07, 01:02 PM	#44
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Please can those who got an iron rod in the fire call it a day, this was meant to be a light hearted thread only. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

10-17-07, 01:03 PM	#45
kranz The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Poland Posts: 1,430 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	yeah-this helmet was needed.But don't forget what happened in Kosovo.