My Complaints about SH4

[Dowly]

I do remember that there was some talk about the copyrights, but like you, I cant remember whether it was a rumour or something more 'official'.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by elanaiba

Guys,

Thanks for pointing out the error with the Thresher. Just a small missing h. Sorry about it, it will of course be corrected in the next patch.

As for the medals, belive me we would have liked to LEAVE the correct medals in the game. But, if the US Institute of Heraldry says we can't, I suppose we can't do it. Anyway, it was not our call, and in now way it was meant as making fun of the real awards of the US Navy.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ghlight=awards

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Dowly

[
Yep, this was the answer I expected to get. German army is german army, no matter the party who leads the coutry. Doesnt make the german medals of the time any better or worse even if their leader was a bit of a nutjob.

If that would be the case, then all US medals would be classed as 'rubbish' for the period of time G.W.B. is in the office. :rotfl:

*Runs and hides*

First of all, the people in the entire world most opposed to the Nazi legacy is the Germans themselves. If the medals are not presently used it would only be be because the Germans themselves thought that the medals were then so closely associated with the Nazi regime that they could no longer morally use them. Please don't try to make me into an anti-German, because I'd have to hate my own grandfather. Since I don't plan to do that I can't be anti-German.

To use a neutral example, the song, "I'm so happy/I'm so happy/I'm so happy and gay" has been redefined, not by the intention of its author, but by the adoption of the word "gay" by a social group not considered to have a claim on that word at the time. Therefore you do not hear people using that perfectly good term today unless they are speaking about homosexuals.

I am curious as to whether the tradition of the German medals of WWII survived their bath in Nazism or not. That decision is purely up to the German people and I have nothing to say about it, even if I had an opinion. And they did change their monitary system from the Riechsmark to the Deutchesmark (sorry if the spelling is wrong) just for that reason.

As for GWB, at least he stands on principle and does not govern by the results of a moistened finger in the wind. He will be judged the modern equivalent of the Duke of York in the Napoleonic wars, but it will be awhile and probably a couple hundred thousand Americans have to die on American soil before that happens. But I am quite confident that our Islamic buddies will mistake President Hillary's forbearance for weakness and take full advantage of the opportunity for mayhem. And I expect President Hillary will then turn into the lion that GWB is not. And she will have no consideration for mercy to the innocent, I'm afraid. There is no fury like an enraged and betrayed liberal. She could well be the modern Woodrow Wilson. Enough of that. We'll see what happens and it doesn't look good.

So, what medals do the Germans use today?

[Capt. Shark Bait]

Originally Posted by Skyhawk

FBT,

Was in the U.S.M.C., past tense. Primary MOS Deceptive Electronic Counter Measures, Cross Trained myself in Communications and Navigation Equipment. Qualified for and held CDI stamps for both DECM gear and Comm and Nav gear as an E-3. 3 meritorious promotions, 3 Meritorious Masts, 5 Letters of Commendation, 7 letters of Appreciation. GCM, ODR, Final rank E-5. 3rd MAW, MAG 16, H & M 16. El Toro ,CA.

You forgot to call me Jarhead. But technically speaking, the proper term to use is "Former Marine".

Semper Fi

someone got read the riot act. well said, Skyhawk. we all know jarheads have atleast one brain cell .... oops, "Former Marine"

[SnowCajun]

Originally Posted by Skyhawk

Wasn't the original reason/explanation related to copyright laws as opposed to "dev's discretion"?

I think the first thing I ever saw said it was because copyright laws wouldn't allow it. I don't totally buy this though, other games use them. Never the less it's not so much the medals is there's no show of additional medals won, as per clusters or stars added to the ribbons for each additional medal you win. I just thought it'd be nice to look at.

I still would prefer a built in battle flag generator that gave you your boat's insignia and let you place your flags for sinkings and damages on it as you please. To me that'd be tons of fun. So much for entertaining a 55 year old man.. bah....

Cya,
SnowCajun

[FIREWALL]

Am I missing something ? There's already a mod out that changes medals. It's been out for quite awhile.

I'll be back in a few minutes with the name and discription.

[elanaiba]

The reason for the medals being different from the real ones is the one I stated before.

Other games use them? Yes, perhaps. I can argue about it forever and I did. But if someone in legal says you definetly got to change the medals, you do it.

My (and our, speaking for the design team) desire to have the real medals portrayed in the game comes from the idea that we're portraying a part of history. I sincerely hope that no one thinks he has really achieved a real award by playing the game.

I can understand Mihai's argumentation. However, it was simply not the case.

[Dowly]

Okie dokie

[Capt. Shark Bait]

it called Real Medals v1.01. can't find it in the mods list ,tho

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

The reason for the medals being different from the real ones is the one I stated before.

Other games use them? Yes, perhaps. I can argue about it forever and I did. But if someone in legal says you definetly got to change the medals, you do it.

My (and our, speaking for the design team) desire to have the real medals portrayed in the game comes from the idea that we're portraying a part of history. I sincerely hope that no one thinks he has really achieved a real award by playing the game.

I can understand Mihai's argumentation. However, it was simply not the case.

Looks like a good answer to me.

[SnowCajun]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

I sincerely hope that no one thinks he has really achieved a real award by playing the game.

Uh ... that would be kinda like ... INSANE ... to think that, now wouldn't it?

I believe we play these games because of what those real people who were actually there endured during this time in history, having not been born back then it's our only way of reliving some of what they saw and did during the war in these boats. They showed us what true heroism actually was all about and we get to experience a little of what it was like by playing this game, and please pay attention to the fact that I called it a "GAME"!

I'm sorry but your response in this manner really caught me off guard suggesting that anyone might seriously be thinking they're really getting real medals, I would have never believed anyone would have thought that. This is a game, it's so far from real life that it's not even funny. We play a patrol in an hour or two.. maybe more, sitting here in our airconditioned homes with fresh air and no threats of bombs, depth charges, or mines. They were out often over a month or more sometimes running more hours than we want to realize having their airconditioning, if they were lucky enough to have one, shut down .. and having been underwater so long they couldn't even light a match due to lack of oxygen. I'm sure their jobs were somewhat like police officers often describe theirs to be, "tons of hours of filled with boredom interupted now and then only by moments of sheer terror!" They didn't have a "save game" feature to restart when they screwed up like we do.

When we play this game we expect the sim submarines to be historically accurate, at least as far as the programmers can make them with their abilities, but I've never felt like I was actually out in the real world sinking tons of shipping and killing real people, so why would anyone suggest I'd feel like I was really winning real medals? Geeez man, that's so absurd! I can't even believe that anyone would really and truly think such a thing ... omg .. tell me you don't seriously believe that people think that?

SnowCajun

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by elanaiba
I sincerely hope that no one thinks he has really achieved a real award by playing the game.

Uh ... that would be kinda like ... INSANE ... to think that, now wouldn't it?

These days I would believe anything. I have seen a few on the edge.

I believe we play these games because of what those real people who were actually there endured during this time in history, having not been born back then it's our only way of reliving some of what they saw and did during the war in these boats. They showed us what true heroism actually was all about and we get to experience a little of what it was like by playing this game, and please pay attention to the fact that I called it a "GAME"!

Not all play it for this reason. Try Uberboot mod. Bang bang shoot'em up type mod. Each have their reasons but I would say by and large on this statement, you are correct. True I like the game for what you stated above but I also like the strategy as well.

I'm sorry but your response in this manner really caught me off guard suggesting that anyone might seriously be thinking they're really getting real medals, I would have never believed anyone would have thought that. This is a game, it's so far from real life that it's not even funny. We play a patrol in an hour or two.. maybe more, sitting here in our airconditioned homes with fresh air and no threats of bombs, depth charges, or mines. They were out often over a month or more sometimes running more hours than we want to realize having their airconditioning, if they were lucky enough to have one, shut down .. and having been underwater so long they couldn't even light a match due to lack of oxygen. I'm sure their jobs were somewhat like police officers often describe theirs to be, "tons of hours of filled with boredom interupted now and then only by moments of sheer terror!" They didn't have a "save game" feature to restart when they screwed up like we do.

If this is all true, why do I have a red light on when I play at night time? When I'm surfaced I have water misted through a fan into my face? Why do I not shower for weeks at time? Why do I work only 4 hours and the rest of the time is for submarine study, sleeping and eating? Why are my work hours from 0100 to 0500? Maybe it is just me:hmm:

When we play this game we expect the sim submarines to be historically accurate, at least as far as the programmers can make them with their abilities, but I've never felt like I was actually out in the real world sinking tons of shipping and killing real people, so why would anyone suggest I'd feel like I was really winning real medals? Geeez man, that's so absurd! I can't even believe that anyone would really and truly think such a thing ... omg .. tell me you don't seriously believe that people think that?

SnowCajun

Here is the issue with the above statement, not all who play this game are looking for it be to historically accurate. Again, there are a large group who like bang bang shoot'em up. With that in mind, there is a fine line the developers have to meet for those who are hardcore and the casual bang bang shoot'em up players. OK, he might have been out on a limb with the real medals deal but if you read what he wrote the boys in the legals depart squashed that idea. Also, perhaps he did not word his thought in writing the way it should have been. As far as people getting lost in games, look around you, I have seen it! How many fans get engrossed in movies? For example: Star Wars, Star Trek, Harry Potter. Seen any fans dressing up? Starting clubs with roll playing games? I'm sure you have. So, perhaps his thought was not as far fetched as you think.

[elanaiba]

Uhm,

I was mostly responsing to Mihai (Maerean) and his theory on medals and games. I would find it absurd too that someone would feel he's earning a real medal in a game. But then, people might think they are ace fighter pilots when dominating the skies in IL-2. They do have some skills that apply in real life, of course, but is it enough? Not.

Veterans and submariners alike might feel annoyed when hearing a kid boast proudly about "sinking the Yamato, getting a CMOH, tottaling double the tonnage of the leading US submarine ace". But for adults, I think it couldn't happen and therefore I feel the concern about degrading the medals significance is unwarranted.

[SilentOtto]

Something I hate because it gets in the way all the time, is measurement system inconsistency. It really bothers me having all distances to ships expressed in feet. I had never seen that before, as far as I know feet are only used for height or depth but not for horizontal distances, yards would fit there I suppose. And it's terrible having to convert feet into yards and then into nautical miles in order to plot distances or just get situation awareness... Feet in TBT, periscopes, and WO reports, miles in the charts... It's a painful conversion when you are into an attack! (And more so for a metric minded individual as I am). Can this be modded out? I hope it will...

I also hate not being able to turn off the darn SD apparatus when we are on friendly waters... bummer. Having it working the original way, with rough distance and no bearing would be good (and its on-off switch please!!!)

What I hate mostly is not having a bigger display, but thats not SH4's fault!

Apart from that and something else I sure forget, I'm basically addicted to the pacific , even though I'm a long time hardcore atlantischer! So hooray on that!

[tater]

Right now my "complaint" is not understanding what these values do (after a frightening number of hours testing different values and getting DCed):

Fall speed = drop rate in meters per second I assume.

Detonate_depth = ? It's not a max depth, and I can set to to a certain value with the following Depth_precision number set to "1" and they still fall at every possible depth.

Depth_precision= a “slop factor” around “Detonate_Depth?" Or is it a slop factor on the aim depth? Or is it the settings allowed on the DCs? (RL IJN Type 95 DCs had only 2 settings, 30m, or 60m to explode, for example)

<G>

tater

[tater]

Asking an easy to answer question sure quiets things up, don't it

tater