New game: "Who dropped the missile"?

geetrue · 08-22-07, 06:32 PM

Okay, who dropped the dog gone missile?

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/eu...sile.row.reut/

Russia or is Georgia lying?

True or false:

True ... Russia dropped the missile

False ... Russia did not drop the mssile

"Experts from the United States, Sweden, Latvia and Lithuania said their investigation showed that a plane from Russia was responsible. But Churkin said this group made no effort to get in touch with Russian experts."

"Experts from those countries identified the missile as the Russian-designed KH-58 and said that the Georgian air force did not have aircraft equipped with, or able to, launch KH-58 missiles."

CCIP · 08-22-07, 07:05 PM

Who has better reasons to drop the missile I ask?

To me, Georgia which is actively trying to find an excuse to breach UN-imposed ceasefires in Abkhazia and South Ossetia and prevent them from gaining [formal] independence has far more reasons to discredit or provoke their main obstacle in this endeavour - Russia. Needless to say, for them anything is a great opportunity to raise a fuss. They've been caught lying and making intentional provocations before. I don't see any reason to believe them again, especially given how blatantly and openly anti-Russian their present government is.

Russia meanwhile has no reason to try and provoke Georgia that I can see. However there is one possibility they'd be covering this up: the missile was intended for a Chechen militant hiding in Georgia. In which case hey. Do I feel bad for it? No I don't. I don't see America having any reservations about using their missiles on Al Quaeda in Yemen or Somalia on occasion :hmm:

At the least, spare me the jazz on Georgia being a poor democratic underdog under Russia's thumb. The country is ruled by a bunch of sorry-ass nationalists who've done their share of dirty work actively suppressing ethnic minorities on their territory and would do it again if given the chance. They constantly spew out threats and the ruling party has been actively pushing out anyone with remotely moderate views from their ranks. America seems to want them for a friend, of course, because these guys (and gals) hate Russia's guts.

fatty · 08-22-07, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

Who has better reasons to drop the missile I ask?

To me, Georgia which is actively trying to find an excuse to breach UN-imposed ceasefires in Abkhazia and South Ossetia and prevent them from gaining [formal] independence has far more reasons to discredit or provoke their main obstacle in this endeavour - Russia. Needless to say, for them anything is a great opportunity to raise a fuss. They've been caught lying and making intentional provocations before. I don't see any reason to believe them again, especially given how blatantly and openly anti-Russian their present government is.

Russia meanwhile has no reason to try and provoke Georgia that I can see. However there is one possibility they'd be covering this up: the missile was intended for a Chechen militant hiding in Georgia. In which case hey. Do I feel bad for it? No I don't. :hmm:

Spoken like a true Russian.

CCIP · 08-22-07, 07:23 PM

Yea. I don't feel bad about it though. Mind you, I've done reasearch from multiple perspectives on this and did quite a bit of reading on the Georgian-Abkhaz war. One of the least known and dirtiest (not just on one side, either) little wars of the past couple of decades, shame it's hardly ever remembered when it comes to assessing where Georgia is today.
I should also qualify that I love Georgians as people, known many great specimens from there, but their government lately is just insane...

bookworm_020 · 08-22-07, 09:04 PM

Pity you din't put a couple of other options in, like

Maybe: America planted it!

Possible: It was done by terrorists!

Awaiting the resulst to be posted by CSI: To early to tell

Bored: Who cares!

The Avon Lady · 08-23-07, 12:01 AM

Somewhat OT: It was a missile! No it wasn't!

tycho102 · 08-23-07, 01:18 PM

With all the crap Putin is pulling, I don't even remotely put it past him to do something "small" like this. Low-level threats can be useful in international politics.

joea · 08-23-07, 02:07 PM

Very much appreciated CCIP's and Dmitry Markov's posts, very informative. I have to say these polls are kind of silly...I mean what evidence do any oof us have to make a judgment? It's not as if we are from the CSI crime lab eh?

granted the discussion is entertaining and I suppose the poll can show attitudes and prejudices if nothing else. However, I won't answer as I don't know.

I do want to remind folks, I mean my fellow Westerners, that Shakashvili originally came to power in a kind of coup..not very democratic. Also, despite his faults I always admired Shevardnadze, also one of the msot honest Soviet leaders during the Glasnost era.

View Poll Results: True or false
True: Russia dropped the missile	16	72.73%
False: Russia did not drop the missile	6	27.27%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

08-22-07, 06:32 PM	#1
geetrue Cold War Boomer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Walla Walla Posts: 2,837 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	New game: "Who dropped the missile"? Okay, who dropped the dog gone missile? http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/eu...sile.row.reut/ Russia or is Georgia lying? True or false: True ... Russia dropped the missile False ... Russia did not drop the mssile "Experts from the United States, Sweden, Latvia and Lithuania said their investigation showed that a plane from Russia was responsible. But Churkin said this group made no effort to get in touch with Russian experts." "Experts from those countries identified the missile as the Russian-designed KH-58 and said that the Georgian air force did not have aircraft equipped with, or able to, launch KH-58 missiles." __________________

08-22-07, 07:05 PM	#2
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Who has better reasons to drop the missile I ask? To me, Georgia which is actively trying to find an excuse to breach UN-imposed ceasefires in Abkhazia and South Ossetia and prevent them from gaining [formal] independence has far more reasons to discredit or provoke their main obstacle in this endeavour - Russia. Needless to say, for them anything is a great opportunity to raise a fuss. They've been caught lying and making intentional provocations before. I don't see any reason to believe them again, especially given how blatantly and openly anti-Russian their present government is. Russia meanwhile has no reason to try and provoke Georgia that I can see. However there is one possibility they'd be covering this up: the missile was intended for a Chechen militant hiding in Georgia. In which case hey. Do I feel bad for it? No I don't. I don't see America having any reservations about using their missiles on Al Quaeda in Yemen or Somalia on occasion :hmm: At the least, spare me the jazz on Georgia being a poor democratic underdog under Russia's thumb. The country is ruled by a bunch of sorry-ass nationalists who've done their share of dirty work actively suppressing ethnic minorities on their territory and would do it again if given the chance. They constantly spew out threats and the ruling party has been actively pushing out anyone with remotely moderate views from their ranks. America seems to want them for a friend, of course, because these guys (and gals) hate Russia's guts. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) Last edited by CCIP; 08-22-07 at 07:16 PM.

08-22-07, 07:23 PM	#4
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Yea. I don't feel bad about it though. Mind you, I've done reasearch from multiple perspectives on this and did quite a bit of reading on the Georgian-Abkhaz war. One of the least known and dirtiest (not just on one side, either) little wars of the past couple of decades, shame it's hardly ever remembered when it comes to assessing where Georgia is today. I should also qualify that I love Georgians as people, known many great specimens from there, but their government lately is just insane... __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

08-22-07, 09:04 PM	#5
bookworm_020 Navy Seal Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sinking ships off the Australian coast Posts: 5,966 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Pity you din't put a couple of other options in, like Maybe: America planted it! Possible: It was done by terrorists! Awaiting the resulst to be posted by CSI: To early to tell Bored: Who cares! __________________ "There is always one person in any organization who knows whats going on, That person must be fired"

08-23-07, 12:01 AM	#6
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Somewhat OT: It was a missile! No it wasn't! __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women." - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974

08-23-07, 01:18 PM	#7
tycho102 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,100 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	With all the crap Putin is pulling, I don't even remotely put it past him to do something "small" like this. Low-level threats can be useful in international politics. __________________ My little Silent Hunter 4 repository

08-23-07, 02:07 PM	#8
joea Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: At periscope depth in Lake Geneva Posts: 3,512 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Very much appreciated CCIP's and Dmitry Markov's posts, very informative. I have to say these polls are kind of silly...I mean what evidence do any oof us have to make a judgment? It's not as if we are from the CSI crime lab eh? granted the discussion is entertaining and I suppose the poll can show attitudes and prejudices if nothing else. However, I won't answer as I don't know. I do want to remind folks, I mean my fellow Westerners, that Shakashvili originally came to power in a kind of coup..not very democratic. Also, despite his faults I always admired Shevardnadze, also one of the msot honest Soviet leaders during the Glasnost era.