forced retirment in patch 1.3 ?

[Reaves]

Forced retirement is B.S.

I know it was like that in real life but I didn't actually join the USN... I want to start a game at the begining of the war and go untill the end. I want my veteran crew and my previous patrol logs.

Make it an option or just get rid of it. Although I don't mind getting retired for lack of aggression, that's fair enough and a good consequence for being a wuss. But If i'm a good skipper I want to have 15 patrols if the length of the war permits it.

[stabiz]

Originally Posted by Excalibur Bane

:rotfl:

Though, he does have a point. SH3 was much, much better in this regard. The whole upgrade screen for your sub is probably the worst thing in the game, not to mention the fact that you get no statistics anywhere on precisely what your sub is capable of, not even in the museum. (And no, sorry, but this isn't acceptable. You shouldn't have to know all the US subs capabilities by heart just for this game. ) Why did they change this? You got me. Another case of them fixing something that isn't broken.

I view Renown as a measure of my influence within the entire USN, the brass, command, etc. While it may be unrealistic to expect to request a new boat from command, this is one of those things where gameplay would be better served then history, by allowing the player to choose to upgrade or not to a new sub and adds more variety to the game without having to restart your career. SH3 had it right, SH4 has it wrong. Just my two cents tho.

Anywho, I did have a save where I had gotten a new Balao command from a Gato, and upon returning to base, I did not recieve the retirement and I was properly transferred to the new flotilla instead of being retired. So that appears to be fixed in the beta, and no doubt in the final 1.3.

This is very true, why on earth did they change something as easy and functional as the upgrade screen in SH3? Why? WHY!

[Seagate]

Originally Posted by stabiz

This is very true, why on earth did they change something as easy and functional as the upgrade screen in SH3) Why? WHY!

Not forgetting the torpedo loadout screen... SHIV SHIII

[w-subcommander]

After testing 1.3 beta during last 36 hours(with short brakes for a job participation)
I found that
1( ) possibly devs didnt solve a career 'bug'. IMHO that career patrol limitation to real numbers (like 5 - 8 maximum limit of patrols ) ,makes game ( ok simulator) realistically boring. At least we need an option to choose between level of historical realism ( and jush wishful thinking option for level of opponent's AI)
I had to quote from their declaration of intentions" The players career is ended sometimes by high command, for inaccurate reasons such as perfectly good and new submarines being retired from frontline duty. This will be sorted out to work as intended." (But what does their "as intended" mean? )
2( ) devs made great job with improving JIN's AI, magniicent job with speed estimation ( it included inside even possibility for human error !!!) wonderful new radar, solving imperial / metric bug in stadimeter etc.
They did great job BUT Will we be send to the office job again after 5-8 patrols?

[Fearless]

I'm really not that fussed about career length. I just start a new one from the date I retired. True that the crew start from scratch but the amount of promotions that occur after each patrol, its no wonder why we end up with more officers and CPOs then crew with a lesser rank.

Promotions are too easy for the AI as well as issuing of medals.

That part was much more realistic in SH3 IMHO.

[Bear]

LukeFF, are you sure about that count? I thought it was 1,458,745,212th time. Yes, Yes - You are right. You do not buy upgrades. I understand this. HOWEVER, when you have renown for items that are available etc. mid war tower late 43, 40 mm AA. Why are they not offered? Mark 16s "Cost" 300 renown. I used the wrong word "buy", but that does not change my point.

You also stated, "Hmm? It's quite easy to turn off the radar." Please do tell and please don't say the button on the radar panel. I can assure you that was the first thing I did, but I still get radar reports when it is "game" off. So I can only assume you know of some mod or adjustment that can be made; if so I would be interested in learning of this and you would have a large amount of my limited gratitude.

I agree with most everyone else that if you don't sink emeny ships or do sink allied ships you should be discharged. Whoa, time to go I am on someone's elses clock.

[Excalibur Bane]

Originally Posted by Bear

You also stated, "Hmm? It's quite easy to turn off the radar." Please do tell and please don't say the button on the radar panel. I can assure you that was the first thing I did, but I still get radar reports when it is "game" off. So I can only assume you know of some mod or adjustment that can be made; if so I would be interested in learning of this and you would have a large amount of my limited gratitude.

If you are using the 1.3 beta, turning off the radar will not turn off the SD radar, only the SJ radar, so aircraft will continue to be detected, regardless if it is on or off. It's a beta though, and that's to be expected. I'm sure it will be fixed in the final patch today.

If your using 1.2, then I have no idea.

[joea]

Did the IJN even use radar detectors?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Reaves

Forced retirement is B.S.

I know it was like that in real life but I didn't actually join the USN... I want to start a game at the begining of the war and go untill the end. I want my veteran crew and my previous patrol logs.

Make it an option or just get rid of it. Although I don't mind getting retired for lack of aggression, that's fair enough and a good consequence for being a wuss. But If i'm a good skipper I want to have 15 patrols if the length of the war permits it.

While I like the idea of forced (or even offered, ala SH1) retirement, I completely agree - it should be an option. We complained that it wasn't there in SH3, and JScones gave us the option in his brilliant SH3 Commander.

Options are good.

[Bear]

"It is a small matter." (13th Warrior)

Now that the patch is out - Offical I hope. All things become small matters. Torpedo loading screens, Forced retirement, Invincible AI, Renown for nothing. All these things are what they are. Beg for another miracle that will never suit everyone, I think not. Or, we mod the hell out of it and get used to it. Now we live or die by our own hand.

A friend of mind use to say to me when things were not right (in my opinion). "What's the matter Bear, is the world not turning your way today." Then he would laugh. Well over the years with different sims I found that the world NEVER turns my way.

There are many people on this forum that are so much smarter than I in the mod making ways, that I can do nothing but put my trust in them to mod right, what may still be wrong.

Time for a clean install and then "Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead." Fair Winds, Smooth Sailing and Good Hunting To Us All.

I wonder what we will gripe about now?

[Excalibur Bane]

Nothing is perfect. At least, nothing created by humans. There will always be something left to gripe about. This much you can be sure of.

[Werewolf13]

Originally Posted by Nightmare

Historically speaking, that was how it happened. Sometimes skippers were relieved after two unsuccessful patrols.

As far as career length, I believe the average was 5 patrols before being moved to a desk job. Isn't SH4 setup that after a set amount of patrols you need to spend renown to stay in command?

Quite right. Many, many Captains were relieved after 1 or 2 patrols for lack of aggressiveness and/or poor performance. In addition after 5 Patrols or so a Captain got promoted and moved to command a Sub squadron, was sent to a staff job or went to new construction which took him out of the war for as long as a year. Some even left subs entirely and went to the surface forces.

[John Channing]

I agree... however I am on my seventh patrol and ComSubPac just keeps sending me out there.

COMPLETE ALL OF YOUR OBJECTIVES PEOPLE!

Renown alone won't keep you in the Fleet.

JCC

[elanaiba]

Originally Posted by stabiz

This is very true, why on earth did they change something as easy and functional as the upgrade screen in SH3? Why? WHY!

Well, its not as simple as it sounds...

First, you didn't want exactly the same screen, I mean uboats items and all, right?

Second, the whole upgrade and structure system got rewritten. Why? It was so hardcoded in SH3 no one would have touched it, so we couldn't get the US boats in the game. Adding one crewman to a sub was a Pain in the posterior. Try that in SHIV or ask a modder... is it better ?

so if you need to rewrite something, you need time. The upgrade screen didn't reach our original intentions.

But don't confuse this with the inability to "buy" submarines. This was expressely done - call it my wish. This is the United States Navy, and like in any Navy that we hold respect for, fighting ships are assigned to the people that deserve them, not sold on the market for the highest bidder.

I felt that the "I want to buy a type VII u-boat" system trivializes what we perceive as gallant fighting ships and lessens their importance to the player.

Now, yeah, we could discuss if the player should be able to use his renown in influencing the powers to get him a better command. Was on the to do list, in some form.

This is part game part simulation. We meant to give you a slice of the Silent Service in WW2. Like any game, it has some rules that need to be learnt and obeyed.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

Well, its not as simple as it sounds...

First, you didn't want exactly the same screen, I mean uboats items and all, right?

Second, the whole upgrade and structure system got rewritten. Why? It was so hardcoded in SH3 no one would have touched it, so we couldn't get the US boats in the game. Adding one crewman to a sub was a Pain in the posterior. Try that in SHIV or ask a modder... is it better ?

so if you need to rewrite something, you need time. The upgrade screen didn't reach our original intentions.

But don't confuse this with the inability to "buy" submarines. This was expressely done - call it my wish. This is the United States Navy, and like in any Navy that we hold respect for, fighting ships are assigned to the people that deserve them, not sold on the market for the highest bidder.

I felt that the "I want to buy a type VII u-boat" system trivializes what we perceive as gallant fighting ships and lessens their importance to the player.

Now, yeah, we could discuss if the player should be able to use his renown in influencing the powers to get him a better command. Was on the to do list, in some form.

This is part game part simulation. We meant to give you a slice of the Silent Service in WW2. Like any game, it has some rules that need to be learnt and obeyed.

Straight from the horse's mouth. I understand you guys had a tough time making decisions in order to strike a balance between realism and playability, since players fall across the spectrum in that regard. I think you guys did a commendable job.

To paraphrase Abe Lincoln: "You may please all of the people some of the time, and part of the people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time."