Bush Commutes Libby Prison Sentence - Page 3

Reaves · 07-02-07, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Yea good grief it's not that you took the cookie, it's that you Lied about it...this is the part that that no one I have yet seen have the BALLZ to stand up and say ya..ya know what, I did it,...I ate the cookie, it was great,,,shouldn't have done it, but damn it was good..."I'm Sorry".

The lack of remorse is what is pathetic for any of them.

Sounds like Clinton but he tried to lie first.

bookworm_020 · 07-02-07, 10:41 PM

Why don't they just get rid of the pardons given by presidents? It would mean less conflict of intrest:hmm:

Enigma · 07-02-07, 11:18 PM

Babysteps?
Hell, it was only in the last 8 months we put a stop to paying full federal pensions to politicians who left office in disgrace after being convicted of felonies....

P_Funk · 07-03-07, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradclark1

Quote:

Originally Posted by P_Funk

When Ford let Nixon off that was the end of integrity on the White House. It wasn't that Nixon did some bad stuff. It was that after he was caught he got let off the hook.

The really bad part is that the American people just go with it. Its times like these that I really dig the French. As weird and snooty as they are, if the government does something they don't want they riot til they get what they want.

Ford said he had to think a lot about it and what he did, he did for the country not for Nixon. Ford cut his own throat and he knew he did but he did what he thought was right. The country had been through enough. Got to respect that. There isn't a politician alive today with that kind of courage.

That's courageous? Take the most corrupt president in history and spare the country from facing the fact that its head of state was a criminal? If a nation cannot or will not face the realities of that fact then thats a pretty weak culture to be head honcho of world politics.

I don't buy that excuse. I think what would have been courageous would be to have let the man fall. Every nation has to face its pitfalls. Its a betrayal of the principles of society to say that a criminal president wont be allowed to go to trial. That just underscores how untrue those ideals are.

Skybird · 07-03-07, 02:09 AM

The three powers are not separated for no good reason. Absence of this separation is a typical primary characteristic of tyrannies.

I can understand a pardon for criminals who served the major part of their term when certain conditions are fulfilled (like it was the case in Germany with some older RAF terrorists who believably had renounced terrorism). But overruling a whole courtcase prior to penalty...?

Quote:

"I respect the jury's verdict," President Bush said. "But I have concluded that the prison sentence given to Mr Libby is excessive," Mr Bush said.

Aha. This president stands above the laws. He stands above the court'S decision. He rates his assessement as higher than the legal system. But nevertheless he respects the jury's verdict. He just thinks it should have had no power at all.

Technically, he may be given the ability to give a pardon. Which means: he must not use it and is free to decide against it. I personally think the presidential pardon encourages corruption and almost provokes the inner circle to overstep rules and laws, always knowing that the president is able to prevent legal consequences.

What remains of that former penalty, 250.000 dollars, is just peanuts for these people. It does not hurt and thus is no penalty.

Bush again illustrated why he has such a bad reputation. Simply the worst looser ever in office. He shouldn't be allowed to regularly leave office - he should be forced out with all disgrace that means for him. The damage he did to his country, nationally and internationally, can hardly be overestimated.

robbo180265 · 07-03-07, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I didn't like it when Clinton pardoned a slew of crooks, now Bush is doing it

Here here

Fish · 07-03-07, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letum

If that happen in the UK there would be uproar!

And there should be one, yes.

Letum · 07-03-07, 06:19 AM

Imagine if this happend to Jeffory Archer in the UK! :rotfl::rotfl:
That would be street-violence time!

August · 07-03-07, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

The three powers are not separated for no good reason. Absence of this separation is a typical primary characteristic of tyrannies.

I can understand a pardon for criminals who served the major part of their term when certain conditions are fulfilled (like it was the case in Germany with some older RAF terrorists who believably had renounced terrorism). But overruling a whole courtcase prior to penalty...?

Quote:

"I respect the jury's verdict," President Bush said. "But I have concluded that the prison sentence given to Mr Libby is excessive," Mr Bush said.

Aha. This president stands above the laws. He stands above the court'S decision. He rates his assessement as higher than the legal system. But nevertheless he respects the jury's verdict. He just thinks it should have had no power at all.

Technically, he may be given the ability to give a pardon. Which means: he must not use it and is free to decide against it. I personally think the presidential pardon encourages corruption and almost provokes the inner circle to overstep rules and laws, always knowing that the president is able to prevent legal consequences.

What remains of that former penalty, 250.000 dollars, is just peanuts for these people. It does not hurt and thus is no penalty.

Bush again illustrated why he has such a bad reputation. Simply the worst looser ever in office. He shouldn't be allowed to regularly leave office - he should be forced out with all disgrace that means for him. The damage he did to his country, nationally and internationally, can hardly be overestimated.

Yet you overestimate it all the time Skybird.

What the hell does this mean?

Quote:

Technically, he may be given the ability to give a pardon. Which means: he must not use it and is free to decide against it.

There's no "technically" about it. The sitting US President has the power to pardon criminals and they have had that power since the founding of our country so learn to deal with it. This is not Germany Skybird, and thank God for it.

"He must not use it"? Ha! Tell that to his predecessor who issued no less than 456 pardons. Bush on the other hand has issued only about 15, yet he is the one you choose to lambast. Now we all know how much you hate our present President Skybird, but you're just going to have to accept that we're never, ever going to listen to your "advice".

Konovalov · 07-03-07, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradclark1

Bush will give him a full pardon at his last hour. He wouldn't give a crap what people think then. Bet a virtual dollar!
Kind of takes away from what he said at the beginning of the investigation.

100%.

bradclark1 · 07-03-07, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P_Funk

That's courageous? Take the most corrupt president in history and spare the country from facing the fact that its head of state was a criminal? If a nation cannot or will not face the realities of that fact then thats a pretty weak culture to be head honcho of world politics.

I don't buy that excuse. I think what would have been courageous would be to have let the man fall. Every nation has to face its pitfalls. Its a betrayal of the principles of society to say that a criminal president wont be allowed to go to trial. That just underscores how untrue those ideals are.

Yes, it is courageous. Whither you or I agree with it is neither here nor there but Ford did what he thought was right for the country. He knowingly killed his own presidency before it started. A politician wouldn't do that out of cronyism, it would have been easier to let him burn.
Do I personally agree with the pardon myself? No I don't, but it doesn't stop me from respecting him for the reason he did it. That took a lot of personal courage.

Skybird · 07-03-07, 08:12 AM

However, August, however. I stick to every single word I said. And if you see the need to defend such most questionable "representatives" of yours for strange reasons of loyalty or whatever you think it is, then this does not do you any compliments.

Ouh, and my "overestimations", as you call it, apparently is shared by most of your press, the huge majority of your people, the huge majority of global opinion.

In German, we have one simple word for it: Vetternwirtschaft (nepotism?). And if others before did like that or not, is meaning nothing. It still remains to be Vetternwirtschaft. Go on, choose your colours: defend it.

August · 07-03-07, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

However, August, however. I stick to every single word I said. And if you see the need to defend such most questionable "representatives" of yours for strange reasons of loyalty or whatever you think it is, then this does not do you any compliments.

Ouh, and my "overestimations", as you call it, apparently is shared by most of your press, the huge majority of your people, the huge majority of global opinion.

In German, we have one simple word for it: Vetternwirtschaft (nepotism?). And if others before did like that or not, is meaning nothing. It still remains to be Vetternwirtschaft. Go on, choose your colours: defend it.

The beauty part is I don't have to defend anything to the likes of you. You people can ostricise Scientologists and nobody can tell you that you can't and our President can issue pardons and sentance commutations and global opinion means squat.

SUBMAN1 · 07-03-07, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letum

If that happen in the UK there would be uproar!

Probably, but there was no uproar when Clinton let loose axe murderers at the end of his term, and this commute is minor compared to whom Clinton let loose.

-S

geetrue · 07-03-07, 12:38 PM

ABC news was talking about it among themselves on the air and said,"Why would Bush do such a thing at a point in time that his popularity is at an all time low"?

The other person answers, "Maybe that's why President Bush did it, because it won't hurt his popularity"

I think Putin made him do it

07-02-07, 10:41 PM	#32
bookworm_020 Navy Seal Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sinking ships off the Australian coast Posts: 5,966 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Why don't they just get rid of the pardons given by presidents? It would mean less conflict of intrest:hmm: __________________ "There is always one person in any organization who knows whats going on, That person must be fired"

07-02-07, 11:18 PM	#33
Enigma The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: At comms depth, obviously. Posts: 1,476 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Babysteps? Hell, it was only in the last 8 months we put a stop to paying full federal pensions to politicians who left office in disgrace after being convicted of felonies.... __________________ "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

07-03-07, 06:19 AM	#38
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Imagine if this happend to Jeffory Archer in the UK! :rotfl::rotfl: That would be street-violence time! __________________

07-03-07, 08:12 AM	#42
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,619 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	However, August, however. I stick to every single word I said. And if you see the need to defend such most questionable "representatives" of yours for strange reasons of loyalty or whatever you think it is, then this does not do you any compliments. Ouh, and my "overestimations", as you call it, apparently is shared by most of your press, the huge majority of your people, the huge majority of global opinion. In German, we have one simple word for it: Vetternwirtschaft (nepotism?). And if others before did like that or not, is meaning nothing. It still remains to be Vetternwirtschaft. Go on, choose your colours: defend it. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-03-07, 12:38 PM	#45
geetrue Cold War Boomer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Walla Walla Posts: 2,837 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	ABC news was talking about it among themselves on the air and said,"Why would Bush do such a thing at a point in time that his popularity is at an all time low"? The other person answers, "Maybe that's why President Bush did it, because it won't hurt his popularity" I think Putin made him do it __________________