Sicko movie review

[bradclark1]

In Canada, an average of $917 was spent annually by individuals or private insurance companies for health care, including dental, eye care, and drugs. In the U.S., this number is $3,372.

Originally Posted by bradclark1

In Canada, an average of $917 was spent annually by individuals or private insurance companies for health care, including dental, eye care, and drugs. In the U.S., this number is $3,372.

So where is the money difference coming from? What is the figure for individual Canadian income that goes to health care via tax? I think that needs to be added to the Canadian total if we want to look at the cost, since their health care is socialized.

[Tchocky]

I suppose the difference lies in how you see your health. Is it something you buy, or are entitled to?
Some states see a basic level of healthcare that should be available to all citizens, and others see it as another good.

Originally Posted by Tchocky

I suppose the difference lies in how you see your health. Is it something you buy, or are entitled to?
Some states see a basic level of healthcare that should be available to all citizens, and others see it as another good.

Or is health something each individual takes care of before they need a hand out?
Smoking, alcohol consumption, Big Macs, unprotected sex, illicate drug use, irresponsible driving habits, all contribute to ER and hospital admittances.

The problem as I see it is that those asking for universal health care are the same folks who only think about health care after they do something that they knew was risky.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Or is health something each individual takes care of before they need a hand out?
Smoking, alcohol consumption, Big Macs, unprotected sex, illicate drug use, irresponsible driving habits, all contribute to ER and hospital admittances.

Well, if you don't care for your body, there are obvious effects. But most people do keep in decent shape. (and wouldn't the country with the most market-driven health system be the healthiest, and not the fast-food addicts? I dont know).
For every Big Mac scoffer, there's leukemia. Basing the system on a marginal group won't lead to very good results. Universal health care is hardly a hand-out, you still pay for it. As Pfunk said, either great care for those who can afford it (and are more likely to be healthy), and nothing for those who can't - or decent care for everyone, with taxpayers/standard insurance taking the bill.

The problem as I see it is that those asking for universal health care are the same folks who only think about health care after they do something that they knew was risky.

I really don't see that happening. Also, who thinks about healthcare when they are healthy anyway?

who thinks about healthcare when they are healthy anyway?

There you go. What is wanted is a handout. Save me from myself.

[Tchocky]

Bah! Universal healthcare is not a handout!

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Bah! Universal healthcare is not a handout!

Tell me who would be giving something back. I'm curious T.

[P_Funk]

Well reading up on the differences 'twixt our two systems has given me the intellecual fuel to give at least a simplistic comparison.

Basically in Canada the vast majority of health care providers are privately run. However these are not for profit organizations and they send their bills directly to the provincial government. There are also public run hospitals and clinics. All health care in Canada is paid for by the government under what we call Medicare. It was initially a provincial affair that started in Saskatchewan in the 1946 under the precursor to the Saskatchewan NDP to supplement the shortage of doctors through subsidy. The Federal government became involved in the 57 to supplement the provinces since individual provinces can't afford true universal health care. Up until the 60s the US system was almost exactly the same. However Lester B. Pearson, with heavy pressure from the NDP (recall my musings about the benefits of minority government), began to fund all provinvices to create universal health care plans.

Today at least 70% of all health care is paid for by the various levels of government. The remaining 30% is paid by private sectors for things not covered by the national plan. Thats prescription drugs, optometry and dentistry.

The US still has significant government involvement in the health care system only it doesn't cover health insurance universally. Costs are also higher in many respects. Administration being at least twice as expensive I think. Prescription drugs are also significantly more expensive. Interestingly enough the buraucracy of the American system is significantly larger than the Canadian one because of the diverse private interests. Many of the extra costs for private advertising and such are passed on to the end users.

Thats what I can say right now. Hard numbers suggest that overall quality of health care is higher in Canada despite the hugher number of doctors and better recovery rates for some illnesses in the US. One statistic shows that Cancer recovery is better in the US while likelihood of getting cancer is lower in Canada. Statistics show better life expectancy and infant mortality rate.

EDIT. @waste gate. Yes universal health care is a 'handout'. Thats because its a function of the responsibility of society to provide the basic necessities for prosperity. Much like the freedom of expression allows intellectual growth so does health care for the growth of life. One cannot be a competitive member of the market if he is sick. One cannot grow up to change the world if he dies as a young man. And simply put we value life in our society above all else. Health care is the most fundamental form of life preservation, even before law and criminal justice.

If you don't believe in the right to universal health coverage then you're just living in a different mind set than the rest of us arguing for it.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Tell me who would be giving something back. I'm curious T.

Damn you Pfunk, this exchange of one-liners was going quite nicely
The Irish system is a lot like the Canadian, it seems, except the ratio is closer to 60/40
Taxes, wastegate, it's how everyone pays.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Damn you Pfunk, this exchange of one-liners was going quite nicely

Sorry. Sometimes I'm like an overopinionated sociopath.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by P_Funk

Sorry. Sometimes I'm like an overopinionated sociopath.

Ah, its a good thing, man.

It's 2.15am, not in a hugely debate-y mood. Suffice to say I think that education and healthcare are two things that should not be viewed as markets, and should not be run on a basis of financial primacy.

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Ah, its a good thing, man.

It's 2.15am, not in a hugely debate-y mood. Suffice to say I think that education and healthcare are two things that should not be viewed as markets should not be run on a basis of financial primacy.

Its OK if P. wants to talk. The more exchange of opinion the better.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Its OK if P. wants to talk. The more exchange of opinion the better.

Who are you and what did you do with waste gate?

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Suffice to say I think that education and healthcare are two things that should not be viewed as markets, and should not be run on a basis of financial primacy.

I'm in agreement with you there on healthcare. Not sure what you mean by education though.