Muhammad is No 2 in boy's names

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Letum

But there are "tame" muslims!

Islam may well contain a lot of immoral ideology, that can never be changed as you cant re-write religious texts. What can be changed is the way people follow those texts. The vast majority of muslims in the UK follow them in a perfectly 'tame' way.

Tame muslims are violating Islam in some essential parts. Of course they hate to become aware of that. I just don't understand why. Being regared as veing associated with something that is so queer that one feels motivated to ingore major poarts of it is - irrational at best, imo.

Is there something like a "liberal stalinist? A "tame Chinese culture revolution" with millions dead? A "democratic Nazi?" If oyu do not follow Stalin, Mao Tse tung and hitler, why could you wish nevertheless to be seen as one of their followers? that is simply idiotic.

Fact is that over one third (amongst the young ones: over one half) accept violance to be used if it helps to turn Britain into an Islamic country and install the Sharia.

Fact is that islamic communties push with more and more aggressiveness and determination for opening lawcodes, education systems and laws in general for Islamic views of things.

Fact is that the majority of the offsprings of immigrants, or better: colonist-families are more conservative and loyal to Islam than even their parents. This is somethign that you will find expressed from sociological data for almost all euzropean countries. It is is counter-intuitive and makes mockery of our hope how integration would function.

As was posted and discussed and reported and linked and referred to many times roughly one year ago.

And why turning violant and offering a reason for counter-attack if you see that hollowing-out democarcy by using it's own rules and laws and values against it works so much better, only a bit slower? Military bombs did not help them well in their conquest of europe, but clerics and politicians on inner-Islamic conferences today frankly speak of "Islam'S demographic bomb". I assume that is only rethoric for you. Your fault, not mine.

I often have referred to the total defenselessness of Wetsern secular constitutions aginst Islam's non-secular nature, since Islam by that can push political goals and demand that all resistance is being given iup by claiming the freedom of relgious practice. And well-meaning people like you, Leturm, allow themselves getting paralysed by that.

You may want to have a closer look behind the events that currently unfold in Turkey. If oyu think it is about democrtacy in action, than you are lightyears off target. It is about turning democracy against itself in order to overthrow it in a manner that it will not defend itself and the attack even will be helped by democratic Europe. Europe could learn a lot about it's future fate by looking at Turkey. Possible that europeans do not like what there is to be seen, and will refuse to accept the reality and stick with their self-made deceptions for that reason.

Well, I consider Europe to be a mental asylum anyway.

Originally Posted by Letum

How about my hypothetical:

As I said...what would you think where you British?



*edit* and what Rose said

I'm not British and I will not place myself in that position, so I can't answer that hypothetical question. That was the reason for my post. The British need to make the judgement. Not a Yank.

The very idea that you would let me make a decision is the problem. Why you ask? Because it takes the will of the people from those who should be in control of their country.

[robbo180265]

Letum - can I use your Skybird fanclub sig?

And Rose - Start reading!!!

[PeriscopeDepth]

You must have an opinion if you thought it was important enough to post for the Brits' benefit. You're just not telling.

PD

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by waste gate

I'm not British and I will not place myself in that position, so I can't answer that hypothetical question. That was the reason for my post. The British need to make the judgement. Not a Yank.

Sorry mate, but from where I'm sat I'd say you'd already made your judgment and were just afraid of proving the majority of us in this thread right. And that's why you wont answer the question IMHO

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

You must have an opinion if you thought it was important enough to post for the Brits' benefit. You're just not telling.

PD

Just because it wasn't the answer you wanted doesn't mean it isn't the truth!!

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Fact is that over one third (amongst the young ones: over one half) accept violance to be used

I'd like to see you tell that to my Muslim friends. They certainly differ from your description. One of them even had a sip of beer once (STRICTLY against Islamic code). Quite the rebel. :rotfl:

I think that, like Christianity or Judaism, there are varying degrees of commitment and belief, ranging from, "Oh, my dad is Muslim, so I guess that technically makes me Muslim" to "death to the infidel." No different from Christianity and Judaism -- there are people who go to church on Christmas and Easter, and there are people who try to brainwash our kids with beliefs of Christian fundamentalism.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Just because it wasn't the answer you wanted doesn't mean it isn't the truth!!

There's no answer I want. Just answers that don't make my bull$hit meter zing.

PD

Here is the answer you all want. We are all much better people thanks to Islam.
Without the prophet ours would be a much less peaceful world.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Here is the answer you all want. We are all much better people thanks to Islam.
Without the prophet ours would be a much less peaceful world.

When did any of us say that or imply that? All I am saying is that not all Muslims are calling for death to the infidel. There are good ones. There are bad ones.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by waste gate

I'm not British and I will not place myself in that position, so I can't answer that hypothetical question. That was the reason for my post. The British need to make the judgement. Not a Yank.

The very idea that you would let me make a decision is the problem. Why you ask? Because it takes the will of the people from those who should be in control of their country.

Ok, what if the news story was about the USA instead of the UK?
Now you are not err....."taking away my will" in the hypothetical.

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Here is the answer you all want. We are all much better people thanks to Islam.
Without the prophet ours would be a much less peaceful world.

Actually the answer that I really want is

We don't make judgments about other people based on the colour of their skin or the religion they follow.

That would work for me.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by robbo180265

Actually the answer that I really want is

We don't make judgments about other people based on the colour of their skin or the religion they follow.

That would work for me.

^^
What he said.

Originally Posted by Rose

When did any of us say that or imply that? All I am saying is that not all Muslims are calling for death to the infidel. There are good ones. There are bad ones.

No one did. That is my answer.

Originally Posted by Letum

Ok, what if the news story was about the USA instead of the UK?
Now you are not err....."taking away my will" in the hypothetical.

Your question continues to be hypothetical. This isn't happening in the US yet.

Besides, you should see my answwer from before I saw this post.