SH5: Back in Atlantic or Again in Pacific? - Page 3

JALU3 · 05-29-07, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perisher

The game should cover the whole world, the maps already do. All pre-nuclear subs should be available, all nationalities playable. WW1 & WW2 campaigns plus a number of "What IF?" campaigns. You might have to load nationalities separately and it might be multi-disk, or even basic game with major powers and conflicts, plus add-ons for others.

I'll vote for this idea.

kylania · 05-29-07, 09:58 PM

Since I've been playing SH4 lately more I find I'm missing being in a uboat.

Not sure, but the Atlantic fight just "feels" more "WWII Submariney" to me.

Rotor · 05-30-07, 02:06 AM

Atlantic forever!

EugenHund · 05-30-07, 04:25 AM

Personally I think the coolest option would be for a pan-WWII subsim, where you could choose to fight for any nation in the war across any theatre that nation had subs in. That would simply rock. However, if I had to choose one country, one theatre, I'd definately go for Atlantic. Why, you ask?
1. Generally spoken life became easier and targets fewer towards the end of the war for the American skippers, whereas the exact opposite was the case for the Germans.
2. There was much more development in Germany with many more interesting scenarios to explore. Why not spend some of your late-war renown taking a Molch or Manta into battle trial. That would be so cool. Some times I find myself not caring about my renown in SH4. There's so little to spend it on. Once your crew has survived four or five patrols, they've become so übercool that you have no reason to get new crew (unless there are fatalities), I've yet to get the opportunity to transfer (I'm only in to the very beginning of '43 in my first career), and there's no way to upgrade or downgrade your sub (as far as I know). Development is so slow, I only experienced one new Air Search radar and one Surface Search radar plus the Mark 23 fast-only torpedo, which I see no reason in spending renown on.
So although I generally like SH4 (despite bugs and all), I prefer to fight in the atlantic. I've even started to consider buying SH3 and upgrade it with the GWX-pack,which I've never experienced but heard only good about, just to get the old "DB-feeling" back again.
"Where do you want to fight?", you ask.
"Let the World be my playground, every ocean my mistress and every submarine my instrument", I say. Give me room!

rulle34 · 05-30-07, 07:20 AM

Atlantic

supposedtobeworking · 05-30-07, 02:23 PM

It's time to go nuclear. SH5 should go nuclear...the last nuke subsim to include a nifty graphic environment as well as pretty good gameplay was Fast Attack from Sierra. Ubisoft should make a pretty and 3D interactive nuke subsim now and get it over with. 688/Dangerous Waters is great...but not much immersion graphics wise...ubisoft should take the ball and run with it.

_Seth_ · 05-30-07, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stabiz

Atlantic for the win!

rodan54 · 05-30-07, 03:43 PM

A WWII subsim is a WWII subsim, regardless of which nation I'm fighting for.

Calbeck · 05-30-07, 04:50 PM

I had to wait HOW many years between SH1 and SH4? And people want to go right back to playing in the Atlantic in the next version, when they already have the superior SH3 to play with? About the only thing you'll get out of an SH5 being in the Atlantic is better graphics --- overall gameplay will be almost identical (unless someone screws up really badly).

Not to mention that almost every OTHER sub sim done since SH1 has ALSO been set in the Atlantic. It's a two-ton b***h finding anything at all to play in the Pacific that isn't so dated it creaks.

Meanwhile, Ubi isn't even finished getting all the bits in SH4 working right.

Gimme a BREAK, here!

Q3ark · 05-30-07, 05:47 PM

I don't know about anyone else, but i would like to see some action in the medeteranian with some of the British fleet boats. They didn't have an easy time out there due to the med being rather shallow.

KrvKpt. Falke · 05-30-07, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calbeck

I had to wait HOW many years between SH1 and SH4? And people want to go right back to playing in the Atlantic in the next version, when they already have the superior SH3 to play with? About the only thing you'll get out of an SH5 being in the Atlantic is better graphics --- overall gameplay will be almost identical (unless someone screws up really badly).

Not to mention that almost every OTHER sub sim done since SH1 has ALSO been set in the Atlantic. It's a two-ton b***h finding anything at all to play in the Pacific that isn't so dated it creaks.

Meanwhile, Ubi isn't even finished getting all the bits in SH4 working right.

Gimme a BREAK, here!

But if someone is playing SH3 since 2005 there's nothing left to do there. You know: youve been everywhere, sunk every type of ship 1000 times, moded the game to its limits... SDK in hands of modders could mean a second life for SH3 but without it theres is only one choice: SH5. And its not about better graphics, its about better gameplay (search this forum for all those threads about SH5 and "ultimate" sub simulator to find out what peoples expectations are).
What you said: "overall gameplay will be almost identical" i would refer to SH3 vs SH4. I think that no metter which theatre the devs will choose they need to do something really revolutionary with SH5 (they did it with SH3 - it was a revolution in sub-sim games - but SH4 is only small evolution in graphics) - only that way the gameplay wont be identical to SH3/4s.
And why Atlantic - not Pacific? In my opinion Atlantic is more interesting and entertaining, it has this feeling of hunting and being hunted, almost every one is your enemy there. Pacific it so traditional: you are the good one and fighting against the bad one, and you will win.

Iron Budokan · 05-30-07, 06:57 PM

I just don't agree the only thing we would get out of a SH5 in the Atlantic is better graphics. There is so much more to model re: crew interaction, dynamic campaign issues, scenery, a fully functional sub, not to mention the intricate detail of running the sub itself and ability to move throughout the boat. A veritable ton of stuff can be done.

We ain't seen nothin' yet, imo....

Convoystalker · 05-30-07, 08:00 PM

Why ask for more of the same ?? Request a WW1 game based on the German side using graphics of SH4.
If anything such a simulation would provide a welcome selection of new subs, naval vessels merchants & aircraft plus other opportunities if the tradition of creating strictly historical simulations could be slightly expanded.

What it needs to appeal to a wider audience is .....
1. A back end story, intrigue & player involvement in strategic decisions of a limited nature.
2. SH3 style modeling & walkthrough capability of all sub compartments complete with crew members who have a range of conversation & replies to questions.
3. Use of 1st person scenes & cutscenes in base to replace the one page medal ceremonies, upgrade screens & briefings.
4. WW1 operations including prize rules, minelaying, submarine nets, Q Ships, limited scale wolfpacks.

By back end story .... perhaps a growing romance between the commander & admirals secretary carried on between patrols plus a dynamic espionage network involving 1st person meetings, planning - insertion - extraction - resupply operations by the commander acting as a trusted confidant of the admiral & naval intelligence.

For a dynamic espionage - intelligence network it requires a map of England, Ireland, Orkneys, Shetlands & other small islands where gradually a network of coastwatchers, radio operators, spies in towns & dockyards are installed.
These assets provide real time eyes on the ship reporting and sometimes additional information and the commanders influence at admiralty-intelligence meetings partly determines where these limited assets are to be located.

Concentrate on spotting coastal shipping, attempt deeper penetration of docks to learn of convoy routes, or concentrate on the movements of British naval forces ?

For instance. A convoy is shown leaving Liverpool with the traditional direction tail, speed & size. With the help of spies a destination & perhaps expected date of arrival is additionally provided. The volume & accuracy of information could be partly based on spies experience & rank similar to crew experience.
Possibilities & mechanisms that spies can be occasionally discovered need to exist & hence their flow of information from a particular location could stop till a fresh agent can be inserted .... just like dead sub crew needing replacement.
So rather than haphazard reports all over the place the provision of information becomes more specialized & accurate .... and influenced by the players decisions.

More of the same or fresh ideas

tater · 05-30-07, 09:10 PM

If a unique theater had to be chosen, I suppose I might be interested in WW1. WW2 Atlantic I won't buy unless I can sink U-boats (and not by my lack of skill as a submariner, but as a DDD/DE skipper), I have zero desire to play one.

I think a better model for a new game would be to absolutely concentrate on the game engine. Better visuals, better crew interactivity, better AI, more powerful campaign tools (persistance, dynamism, etc), etc. Design the game with the idea that it will be for BOTH theaters. Sell the base game engine with some boats from both areas, then sell add-on packs with each theater done in detail.

vindex · 05-30-07, 09:37 PM

I do kind of like the idea of WWI. Same, but different.

I agree that there is a lot that can be done with crew interaction, more interactive sub, etc.

I am always amused when people say "There won't be any more Silent Hunter because we complained too much about SH4". Please. Name me one company that has ever dropped a successful product line because customers were hard to please. Really, name me one. Unprofitable ... yes. Hard to please ... no. If hard-to-please, irritable, grumpy customers were a reason for not doing business, the entire airline, tourism, hotel, and restaurant industries would cease to exist tomorrow.

Also, for those of you who know about market segmentation, it is true that the hardcore sim gamer segment is a small one in terms of sales, but I remember doing an EA case in business school about the launch of "The Sims: Online" and it was very clear that while small, the hardcore segment was considered highly influential because it comprised a disproportionate portion of early sales and word of mouth.

I believe there will be a SH5. I don't know if Ubisoft will make it, or whether it will be called SH5. But I am certain there will be a next-generation product.

View Poll Results: SH5: Back in Atlantic or Again in Pacific?
Atlantic	87	62.59%
Pacific	31	22.30%
It is the same for me	21	15.11%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll

05-29-07, 09:58 PM	#32
kylania Silent Hunter Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3,528 Downloads: 118 Uploads: 0	Since I've been playing SH4 lately more I find I'm missing being in a uboat. Not sure, but the Atlantic fight just "feels" more "WWII Submariney" to me. __________________

05-30-07, 02:06 AM	#33
Rotor Torpedoman Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Denmark (Falster) Posts: 114 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	Atlantic forever! __________________

05-30-07, 07:20 AM	#35
rulle34 Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 835 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Atlantic __________________

05-30-07, 04:50 PM	#39
Calbeck Sailor man Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Phoenix, Land of AZ Posts: 49 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	I had to wait HOW many years between SH1 and SH4? And people want to go right back to playing in the Atlantic in the next version, when they already have the superior SH3 to play with? About the only thing you'll get out of an SH5 being in the Atlantic is better graphics --- overall gameplay will be almost identical (unless someone screws up really badly). Not to mention that almost every OTHER sub sim done since SH1 has ALSO been set in the Atlantic. It's a two-ton b***h finding anything at all to play in the Pacific that isn't so dated it creaks. Meanwhile, Ubi isn't even finished getting all the bits in SH4 working right. Gimme a BREAK, here! __________________ "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of fanboys suddenly cried out in joy and won't shut the frak up." --- PsyOps

05-30-07, 04:25 AM	#34
EugenHund Nub Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denmark Posts: 4 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Personally I think the coolest option would be for a pan-WWII subsim, where you could choose to fight for any nation in the war across any theatre that nation had subs in. That would simply rock. However, if I had to choose one country, one theatre, I'd definately go for Atlantic. Why, you ask? 1. Generally spoken life became easier and targets fewer towards the end of the war for the American skippers, whereas the exact opposite was the case for the Germans. 2. There was much more development in Germany with many more interesting scenarios to explore. Why not spend some of your late-war renown taking a Molch or Manta into battle trial. That would be so cool. Some times I find myself not caring about my renown in SH4. There's so little to spend it on. Once your crew has survived four or five patrols, they've become so übercool that you have no reason to get new crew (unless there are fatalities), I've yet to get the opportunity to transfer (I'm only in to the very beginning of '43 in my first career), and there's no way to upgrade or downgrade your sub (as far as I know). Development is so slow, I only experienced one new Air Search radar and one Surface Search radar plus the Mark 23 fast-only torpedo, which I see no reason in spending renown on. So although I generally like SH4 (despite bugs and all), I prefer to fight in the atlantic. I've even started to consider buying SH3 and upgrade it with the GWX-pack,which I've never experienced but heard only good about, just to get the old "DB-feeling" back again. "Where do you want to fight?", you ask. "Let the World be my playground, every ocean my mistress and every submarine my instrument", I say. Give me room!

05-30-07, 02:23 PM	#36
supposedtobeworking XO Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 436 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	It's time to go nuclear. SH5 should go nuclear...the last nuke subsim to include a nifty graphic environment as well as pretty good gameplay was Fast Attack from Sierra. Ubisoft should make a pretty and 3D interactive nuke subsim now and get it over with. 688/Dangerous Waters is great...but not much immersion graphics wise...ubisoft should take the ball and run with it.

05-30-07, 03:43 PM	#38
rodan54 Navy Dude Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: California, USA Posts: 176 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	A WWII subsim is a WWII subsim, regardless of which nation I'm fighting for.

05-30-07, 05:47 PM	#40
Q3ark Watch Officer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: York, England Posts: 346 Downloads: 47 Uploads: 0	I don't know about anyone else, but i would like to see some action in the medeteranian with some of the British fleet boats. They didn't have an easy time out there due to the med being rather shallow.

05-30-07, 06:57 PM	#42
Iron Budokan Sea Lord Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,778 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	I just don't agree the only thing we would get out of a SH5 in the Atlantic is better graphics. There is so much more to model re: crew interaction, dynamic campaign issues, scenery, a fully functional sub, not to mention the intricate detail of running the sub itself and ability to move throughout the boat. A veritable ton of stuff can be done. We ain't seen nothin' yet, imo.... __________________ "You will take on England wherever you find her ships, and you will break her power at sea." --Iron Coffins, Herbert A. Werner http://kennethmarkhoover.com

05-30-07, 08:00 PM	#43
Convoystalker Swabbie Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 12 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Why ask for more of the same ?? Request a WW1 game based on the German side using graphics of SH4. If anything such a simulation would provide a welcome selection of new subs, naval vessels merchants & aircraft plus other opportunities if the tradition of creating strictly historical simulations could be slightly expanded. What it needs to appeal to a wider audience is ..... 1. A back end story, intrigue & player involvement in strategic decisions of a limited nature. 2. SH3 style modeling & walkthrough capability of all sub compartments complete with crew members who have a range of conversation & replies to questions. 3. Use of 1st person scenes & cutscenes in base to replace the one page medal ceremonies, upgrade screens & briefings. 4. WW1 operations including prize rules, minelaying, submarine nets, Q Ships, limited scale wolfpacks. By back end story .... perhaps a growing romance between the commander & admirals secretary carried on between patrols plus a dynamic espionage network involving 1st person meetings, planning - insertion - extraction - resupply operations by the commander acting as a trusted confidant of the admiral & naval intelligence. For a dynamic espionage - intelligence network it requires a map of England, Ireland, Orkneys, Shetlands & other small islands where gradually a network of coastwatchers, radio operators, spies in towns & dockyards are installed. These assets provide real time eyes on the ship reporting and sometimes additional information and the commanders influence at admiralty-intelligence meetings partly determines where these limited assets are to be located. Concentrate on spotting coastal shipping, attempt deeper penetration of docks to learn of convoy routes, or concentrate on the movements of British naval forces ? For instance. A convoy is shown leaving Liverpool with the traditional direction tail, speed & size. With the help of spies a destination & perhaps expected date of arrival is additionally provided. The volume & accuracy of information could be partly based on spies experience & rank similar to crew experience. Possibilities & mechanisms that spies can be occasionally discovered need to exist & hence their flow of information from a particular location could stop till a fresh agent can be inserted .... just like dead sub crew needing replacement. So rather than haphazard reports all over the place the provision of information becomes more specialized & accurate .... and influenced by the players decisions. More of the same or fresh ideas

05-30-07, 09:10 PM	#44
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	If a unique theater had to be chosen, I suppose I might be interested in WW1. WW2 Atlantic I won't buy unless I can sink U-boats (and not by my lack of skill as a submariner, but as a DDD/DE skipper), I have zero desire to play one. I think a better model for a new game would be to absolutely concentrate on the game engine. Better visuals, better crew interactivity, better AI, more powerful campaign tools (persistance, dynamism, etc), etc. Design the game with the idea that it will be for BOTH theaters. Sell the base game engine with some boats from both areas, then sell add-on packs with each theater done in detail.

05-30-07, 09:37 PM	#45
vindex Planesman Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 192 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	I do kind of like the idea of WWI. Same, but different. I agree that there is a lot that can be done with crew interaction, more interactive sub, etc. I am always amused when people say "There won't be any more Silent Hunter because we complained too much about SH4". Please. Name me one company that has ever dropped a successful product line because customers were hard to please. Really, name me one. Unprofitable ... yes. Hard to please ... no. If hard-to-please, irritable, grumpy customers were a reason for not doing business, the entire airline, tourism, hotel, and restaurant industries would cease to exist tomorrow. Also, for those of you who know about market segmentation, it is true that the hardcore sim gamer segment is a small one in terms of sales, but I remember doing an EA case in business school about the launch of "The Sims: Online" and it was very clear that while small, the hardcore segment was considered highly influential because it comprised a disproportionate portion of early sales and word of mouth. I believe there will be a SH5. I don't know if Ubisoft will make it, or whether it will be called SH5. But I am certain there will be a next-generation product.