these DDs ain't stupid

[Capt. Shark Bait]

came across a huge euro liner and set an intercept course. after a bit a DD shows up so i goto periscope depth and continue on, keeping an eye on said DD. after a bit more i get more contacts, 4 DDs and a passenger ship. eventually i fire 2 on the liner and at that same moment one of the newer contacts cuts across my course so i let ine more go hoping to the that DD, but all missed. so, i go deep, 200' and run silent with one partially loaded tube. i got away then came about to let the last go free and it misses as well so i set a course to the SW via previously plotted waypoints. i'm 3k yrds from from the passenger ship so i got periscope depth the check on things. all 4 destroyers are still me. they followed me while i was at 200' along the course that was set. i go deep again to no avail. the thermal layer wasn't much help either. finished it up at 755'

[SteamWake]

See Ive been saying all along. The DD's arent all that stupid.

I keep reading these posts about brain dead AI personally Ive run accross a couple of stupid ones. For instance sitting directly in front of me at 400 yards at a dead stop listening (key word being dead).

But for the most part they have been reactive, and aggressive.

I lost a carrer tonight while trying to slip through cape horn. Got spotted visually (may have been radar hard to tell) at night in shallow water.

I tried to settle down on the bottom and go silent. ping ping... uth oh... ash cans right on top of us.. big time trouble flooding and the damn scopes .. both of them damaged ! not to mention the pumps and flooding.

We HAD to surface and try to slug it out. Captain Frank Thompsin RIP....

[Ducimus]

AI detection stock is rather lack luster to understate it. What's really grabbing you by the nuts is the disparity in crew rating assigned to various AI. Crew ratings scale from 0 to 4. And if lessons learned from SH3 still hold true, Crew rating of 0, may as well be mentailly retarded. Crew rating of 4, is Bungo Petes evil twin brother.

[orangenee]

I had a run in with some DDs but managed to get away from them, it took a long time though they kept finding me again, then once they seemed to have given up, they ate some torpedo. The AI seems pretty tight to me.

[Tarl]

I mentioned this in a different thread. Enemy AI appears to vary from contact to contact. Not sure if the timeline has anything to do with it, but I started a campaign in Dec 1941 and was forced to retire in early 1943. Too bad because I just acquired a Balao class sub.


So.... restarted a new campaign in early 1944 and started with a Balao this time. (I mean comeon, I had already been promoted into one).

...the missions I've played this time around, very TUFF AI for the DDs. I've been sunk twice and damaged so bad (other times) where I couldn't continue the mission, repair or make it back to base (ie, rudder destroyed, dive planes destroyed...etc.)

So yes, earlier in the game I had some DDs that were easy to fool and get around, and I've had some really TUFF cookies that continue to persist and track you, DC u and actually sink u.

[-Pv-]

I've also seen strong indication the enemy AI improves with war period and that would be historically correct.

I've had a lot of trouble with armed cargo ships.
Finishing them off with cannon isn't always a safe thing. I now attack them from the far side after they've begin listing.

Some aircraft are sneaky. Will watch them fly by and circle around on radar, then come back at low level under the radar (getting a late visual) for a quick straif. My whole crew gets a very heart pounding workout when this happens.

The task force sub hunters use a very effective technique that's hard to counter, so I work to avoid them.

The distances, highly variable weather, shallow target areas around complex island chains is very satisfying to me. Knowing how effective the DDs and DCs can be, it's very satisfying when I evade near misses with the boat rocking to the DC dance.
Over-all, I find this game more challenging than SH3 though the convoy evasion logic needs some work. In the Silent Service game I knew I only had one good shot at the convoy before I would be pounded under for sometimes hours before I could give the long chase to contact for a second try. I've yet to experience that level in this game although the DD can keep me effectively pinned once they know where to look. I try to deny them that which adds to the planning and drama in the attack. Once I hear the steady pinging, I know the dance is about the start and I have to give the game my full attention.
-Pv-

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

AI detection stock is rather lack luster to understate it. What's really grabbing you by the nuts is the disparity in crew rating assigned to various AI. Crew ratings scale from 0 to 4. And if lessons learned from SH3 still hold true, Crew rating of 0, may as well be mentailly retarded. Crew rating of 4, is Bungo Petes evil twin brother.

I'm voting on this post. It is a mixed bag with the DD, some are kick butt and others are deaf and blind. One nice thing is you do not know what you are going to get so running at them like a nut can be successful or you could be very dead. I find more lack luster than Deadeye Dick at the helm of the DD. There needs to more consistency with the Deadeye Dick to keep it interesting. Last night I decimated an entire convoy after blasting three DD with my deck cannon. Not what I call realistic. Also, the AI merchant need to act like the merchant should, zig-zag and full ahead. I see very little of this.

Right now I see the AI tuned for the casual gamer looking to blast everything and having a great time at it. No problem there, desired effect achieved. Luckly for guys looking to simulate closely what it was like we have guys like Ducimus who tweek the AI and make them harder to handle. I have not installed the harder AI as yet, waiting on next patch for that. All in all at this point, the AI DD are not that bad, IMHO.

[Capt. Shark Bait]

the deaf and blind you mention happened to me as well. sank 3 freighters with my deck gun and had a destroyer maybe not much more than 1500yrds off just moving about, "searching" not sure which i preferr:hmm:

[ryanwigginton]

Three times now I've ran into convoys with destroyer escorts usually on the surface in rough seas. And its a turkey shoot. The destroyers just seem to mince around not knowing what to do. One even sailed straight past me a hundred metres away dropping depth charges when I'm blatantly on the surface laughing at his feeble attempts. This is a perfect example of the bad AI. I think for some reason the crews manning the deck gun when infact they shouldn't be permitted. Historically, could the destroyers fire in rough seas? -I don't know (did they have automated guns) But anyway I fire until I run out of ammo then dissapear without a scratch and I have 100% realism set. Sort it out! For this reason I put the game to one-side YET AGAIN until the next patch... can't wait to play, but not worth it until these faults are fixed -would be like watching a pirate DVD. Or sneaking a peak at your christmas prezzies... You just spoil it for yourself.

[kakemann]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

And if lessons learned from SH3 still hold true, Crew rating of 0, may as well be mentailly retarded. Crew rating of 4, is Bungo Petes evil twin brother.

:hmm:

The crew rating is definately related to the AI's "brains". In my mod i've raised all crew status on all of the enemy convoys, task forces etc. because I wanted them to be more deadly just as you did on your mod, Ducimus.
Most of the time they would really be more challenging, and especially when spotted running on the surface you would clearly see a difference with higher crew rating. They will start pounding your sub almost instantly.
However a few times it doesn't matter. The AI will just behave strange, but more seldom though

[Capt. Shark Bait]

after sending a contact report, i was ordered to inflict heavy losses on the escorts. took out one, then the other 2 had to try and runi my day. at one point i had the external cam up, yeah i know it's sorta like cheating , and it sounded like one DD had shut down it's engines to listen for where i might be. next thing i know it's turning to bear down on me and promptly started a run . needless to say i went to flank speed and quickly changed course. anyway, hearing what sounded like an engine shutdown, is the AI that smart? i did manage to get one more out of 3, tho, and it wasn't easy

[jerryt]

Originally Posted by Capt. Shark Bait

after sending a contact report, i was ordered to inflict heavy losses on the escorts. took out one, then the other 2 had to try and runi my day. at one point i had the external cam up, yeah i know it's sorta like cheating , and it sounded like one DD had shut down it's engines to listen for where i might be. next thing i know it's turning to bear down on me and promptly started a run . needless to say i went to flank speed and quickly changed course. anyway, hearing what sounded like an engine shutdown, is the AI that smart? i did manage to get one more out of 3, tho, and it wasn't easy

They must have spotted your camera. :rotfl:

[tater]

I made a mission to test ramming when the ship classes are switched from what they were, to Type=1 (corvette).

I had calm sea, on a clear morning. I ran on the surface towards a minesweeper set to be a "corvette" with AI set to elite. He started firing at me at extreme range. He hit me pretty quickly. I never got close enough to see if he'd ram me.

Next try.

I cross his path at 90 degress submerged and stop. When he gets close, I set the depth to 30 (Porpoise Class). I'm decks awash in front of him. He stops maybe 50-100 yards from me and sits there. I shoot some AA at him, and only then does he slowly move forward and ram me.

He took no damage, but either did I. Plugged him a few times with HE and Boom.

I waited a few hours (in TC) for the subchaser, also set to be a corvette, came. He managed to avoid ramming me, so I rammed him and he blew up. (also set to elite).

[Beery]

Originally Posted by Capt. Shark Bait

...it sounded like one DD had shut down it's engines to listen for where i might be. next thing i know it's turning to bear down on me and promptly started a run . needless to say i went to flank speed and quickly changed course. anyway, hearing what sounded like an engine shutdown, is the AI that smart?

The AI destroyers in both SH3 and SH4 do indeed shut down their engines so they can listen. If there's more than one destroyer one will shut down and listen and he'll tell the others where to look.

[Capt. Shark Bait]

Originally Posted by Beery

The AI destroyers in both SH3 and SH4 do indeed shut down their engines so they can listen. If there's more than one destroyer one will shut down and listen and he'll tell the others where to look.

that's what i thought, tho -it's engine sound stopped the further away i got from it, so i couldn't be sure